Looking for new info. K-frame cracking?

[Hookeye]

I have seen a 66 that had a frame crack.
It was an old one that had been shot a LOT.

Have seen other K .357s w cracked forcing cones, rebarreled they kept on shootin'.

Oddly, I saw two nickel 442s that had cracked frames.
Smith replaced em w 642s.

 

[Jim Watson]

One question I've always had is what actually happens when the forcing cone on K frame cracks, and how many people have continued shooting hundreds or thousands of rounds through their cracked forcing cone without noticing?

Loss of accuracy and "spitting" seems noticeable.

 

[golden]

I found the K-frames in the past to be too fragile for a steady diet of .357 magnum.

My first issued duty gun was a S&W model 13 with a 3 inch barrel. We used 110 grain .357 ammo in these and did not have any problems until someone tried to qualify with the 125 grain ammo reserved for RUGER' GP-100 models. A forcing cone cracked when the officer shot 125 grain ammo through it and our agency forbid its use in the model 13.

I have a fair amount of ammo, both .357 and .38 Special through the RUGER Security Six series and I believe it is strong enough to shoot the magnums on a regular basis.
I now shoot almost only .38 Specials in my K-frames and RUGER Six series. I save the .357's for my L-frames and GP-100's. They have worked fine with the magnums so far.

My self defense ammo in my .357's is always a premium .38 Special load, I do not bother with the magnums anymore as they do not seem to work any better. I like FEDERAL HST or WINCHESTER PDX-1 from the large ammo makers. I also like the DOUBLE TAP 110 grain standard pressure and +P loads with controlled expansion bullets. I use the HORNADY FTX 110 grain in my J-frames for ease of control.

Jim

 

[Riomouse911]

Like the other guys, I use low to mid-range LSWC .357 loads in my 19-13-65-66’s, .38’s in my 14-15-64-67’s and full power .357’s in my 686+ and GP-100. No reason to beat up some nice older revolvers driving them flat out all the time.

Stay safe.

 

[Hookeye]

Saw a Security Six cracked too, and was almost new. Proly had some flaw in it from the get go.
Eh it happens.

 

[Tallball]

Yeah. I mostly shoot 357's through my Blackhawk and Model 28. I'll wear out before they do. Occasionally I'll shoot some through a medium or small revolver, for the exciting flash and noise, but it seems better to mostly stick with 38's to avoid shooting the smaller ones loose.

 

[Riomouse911]

Saw a Security Six cracked too, and was almost new. Proly had some flaw in it from the get go.
Eh it happens.

Even the vaunted Redhawk had an issue with barrels cracking when run with lots of full power ammo. (Possibly from overtorqueing the barrel, but I could be mistaken as to the cause.)

You’re right, stuff does happen.

Stay safe.

 

[Styx]

Is there still any risk of cracking the frames on S&W K-frame .357s? Models 19 and 66,
At one time, it was a hot topic but haven't heard anything new about it.
I know the culprit was reported to be the light bullet (110 gr and 125gr) so I stopped using those.
I only shoot the 158 gr factory loads now.

If you plan on shooting a lot of 357, just get a 686 or 586 (L frames aka Medium frame). The older K-frames cracked and the newer K frames are still not robust as the S&W model 686 or the Ruger SP101 and GP100. I also don't like the 2 peice barrel execution on the new K frames.

The frame will be a little taller and the cylinder a little wider. That said, I'm a short guy with an average build, and I EDC a 2.5" 686+ IWB year round including in the summer with only shorts and a t-shirt on without a problem. I actually carry 125gr 357 in my EDC.

The K and L frame share the same grip options, holster options (I've always have been able to fit my L-frames in 95% of all leather K-frame holsters) are mostly the same, the trigger guard and trigger reach are similar, and the weight between the K and L frame is negligible IMHO. You can get the L-frame in 6 or 7 shots. The recoil will be more manageable and the frame more robust.

For example, the 4" Model 66 is listed at 36.9 oz.
The 4.25" Model 19 is listed at 37.2 oz.
The 4" Model 686 is listed at 38.1 oz....
[At most that's only a 1.2 oz difference and at the least, a .9 oz difference]

The Model 19 Carry Comp 3" is 34.2 oz.
The 2.75" Model 66 Combat Magnum with 2 peice barrel is 33.5 oz.
The 2.5" 686+ is 34.5 and the 3" is 35.8 oz. The 3" 586 Carry Comp is 36.2 oz.

It's only a .9 to 3 oz difference between the frame length depending on barrel size, and IMHO, that up to 3 oz isn't going to be a factor with belt carry. Comparable barrel lengths will only have an ounce or two difference in weight.

My suggestion would be to get an L frame or go with a Ruger offering. If you mainly plan on shooting .38+p the overwhelming majority of the time, then go for the K-frame only if you want an extra round. If that extra round isn't worth the size and weight bump up, might as well go with a J-frame (Model 60) if all you'll be doing if shooting 38 spc.

 

[Gumby0961]

My Dads pre m15 Combat Masterpiece spent its life shooting .38 spl 158 wc's. Sadly the forcing cone cracked, now it if shot your knuckles are showered with debris and the cylinder is damn near impossible to open.

 

[Jim Watson]

You could probably have it rebarrelled. Sorry to lose the engraving, but shooting a gun with cracked barrel is not a good idea.

 

[Styx]

You could probably have it rebarrelled. Sorry to lose the engraving, but shooting a gun with cracked barrel is not a good idea.

Being his dad's gun, he probably wants to keep it as is.

 

[Jim Watson]

Then he ought not to shoot it.

 

[cfullgraf]

One question I've always had is what actually happens when the forcing cone on K frame cracks, and how many people have continued shooting hundreds or thousands of rounds through their cracked forcing cone without noticing?

When I cracked the forcing cone on my Model 19, it became very difficult to open the cylinder. It was a signal something was wrong. I inspected the gun and found the cracked forcing cone.

I stopped shooting the gun, took it to my local gun shop, they sent it back to S&W, and S&W fixed the gun on their dime.

This was circa 1980, don’t expect that service today.

 

[defjon]

Hmm...

Nervously eyeing my model 60-9 that sees regular magnum practice...

 

[cfullgraf]

Hmm...

Nervously eyeing my model 60-9 that sees regular magnum practice...

The K-frames guns have a flat machined in the barrel where the crane enters the frame. This is a carry over from the 38 Special K-frames to allow for small frames and cylinders. It is an Achilles heel of the 357 Magnum K-frames. I guess, sometimes it causes problems with 38 Special Models.

I have a couple 357 Magnum Model 60's, both older, 38 Special models and current production 357 Magnum Models. I do not remember how the forcing cone are looks on my Model 60's. I'll try to remember to look on Wednesday.

Bottom line, though, I do not shoot full power 357 Magnum loads through my Model 60's. The recoil is just too brutal.

But, even so, there are no, or few comments of forcing cone or frame problems with the Model 60.

I shoot 158 grain SWC 38 Special +P loads in 357 Magnum cases most in my 3" Model 60-15. Recoil is manageable and loads not too hot for the gun.

 

[Styx]

The K-frames guns have a flat machined in the barrel where the crane enters the frame. This is a carry over from the 38 Special K-frames to allow for small frames and cylinders. It is an Achilles heel of the 357 Magnum K-frames. I guess, sometimes it causes problems with 38 Special Models.

I have a couple 357 Magnum Model 60's, both older, 38 Special models and current production 357 Magnum Models. I do not remember how the forcing cone are looks on my Model 60's. I'll try to remember to look on Wednesday.

Bottom line, though, I do not shoot full power 357 Magnum loads through my Model 60's. The recoil is just too brutal.

But, even so, there are no, or few comments of forcing cone or frame problems with the Model 60.

I shoot 158 grain SWC 38 Special +P loads in 357 Magnum cases most in my 3" Model 60-15. Recoil is manageable and loads not too hot for the gun.

You have to clarify that only applies to older prelock K frames.

 

[fxvr5]

You have to clarify that only applies to older prelock K frames.

Are you referring to the flat cut on the bottom of the forcing cone? It is present on some K frames with the lock.

 

[Styx]

Are you referring to the flat cut on the bottom of the forcing cone? It is present on some K frames with the lock.

I never knew or seen them on the post lock K frames before. Good to know. What version K frame with the locks has the old forcing cone do you know?

 

[fxvr5]

I never knew or seen them on the post lock K frames before. Good to know. What version K frame with the locks has the old forcing cone do you know?

Model 67 with the one-piece barrel. Here's one:

Smith & Wesson Model 67

The .38 Special has been one of America’s darlings for over a century. Most Smith & Wesson .38/.357 reviews focus on the .357 Magnums or snubby .38s. But what

gunsmagazine.com

 

[Styx]

Model 67 with the one-piece barrel. Here's one:

Smith & Wesson Model 67

The .38 Special has been one of America’s darlings for over a century. Most Smith & Wesson .38/.357 reviews focus on the .357 Magnums or snubby .38s. But what

gunsmagazine.com

Only is that the only one? No model 66 or 19 like that?

 

[cfullgraf]

I never knew or seen them on the post lock K frames before. Good to know. What version K frame with the locks has the old forcing cone do you know?

The current production of the Model 19 was redesigned in 2018 that did away with flat cut in the bottom if the forcing cone. The dash number is -9.

I'm not sure how far and wide that modification has been done to other currently manufactured K-frame models.

Both the Model 19 and the Model 66 were produced after the introduction of the lock before they were discontinued in the 2000-2005 time frame.

 

[someguy2800]

delete, wrong thread

 

[S.Crockett]

I’ve got a pre-owned M19-3 - 4” barrel. I’m the second owner and was worried about this issue too.

Fortunately, the original owner was a handloader and only shot lead boolits in standard .38 Spcl or .38+P loads thru it.

He kept the barrel clean of lead build up. The only factory ammo I’ve shot thru it has been 158 grn loads in either .38 Special or .357 Mag. Standard stuff, nothing exotic.

 

[SwampWolf]

I passed up a Real Deal on a Model 12 Airweight M&P. No cracks, very low price.

I probably paid more than I should have for mine (used, of course) and I examined it very carefully for any evidence of cracks before purchase. I tote mine (a round butt version) fairly regularly in an iwb holster.

 

[Gumby0961]

Then he ought not to shoot it.

Anymore