Looking for opinions / observations re pistol caliber carbines !

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Carne Vore

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I have become intrigued with the Rock River Arms 9mm carbine ( BRT-9 R9 ) . I have made an effort to find info on other mfgs of similar carbines with little success . Hoping the group can suggest a similar caliber carbine style with some pros and cons . All my experience is with hand guns and bolt action rifles , so I'm a newbie with the semi auto long guns . I will be using whatever I end up getting as a range gun , home defense and plinking / camp gun .
 
Palmetto State Armory, Extar, Wilson Combat, just to name a few. A Google search for 9mm AR pistol will bring tons of results.
 
I have both a 9x19 AR carbine and an Auto Ordinance semi-auto Thompson. Both make longer range shots easier to make than with a handgun but I was surprised how little a bump in velocity I got with the Thompson. I have never shot the AR over a chronograph.

For my purposes, they are fun to plink with but you an have the same fun with less expensive 22LR ammunition.
 
cfullgraf said:
I have both a 9x19 AR carbine and an Auto Ordinance semi-auto Thompson. Both make longer range shots easier to make than with a handgun but I was surprised how little a bump in velocity I got with the Thompson. I have never shot the AR over a chronograph.

For my purposes, they are fun to plink with but you an have the same fun with less expensive 22LR ammunition.
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Thankyou for the input . I have several .22LRs and use then frequently ( er , at least when the bride does not bring out the honey do list ) . I've just become intrigued with the carbine and wanted some scoop . Thank again .
 
Looking at it from the USPSA and IDPA ranges, the best entry level PCC is the Ruger PC. Looks like a big 10/22, generally reliable.

AR pattern 9mms are pretty uneven. I see more malfunctions with PCCs than pistols even though the carbines are a minority of entries.
PCC competitors are constantly tinkering with their guns and ammo in a search for the right setup for reliability, accuracy, and recoil management.
A good AR 9 is the result of paying for a major big brand name or doing a lot of tinkering with a "popularly priced" gun, and a bit of luck.

A friend has both a Ruger and a lower middle class AR. The Ruger is trouble free but he has long experience with the AR, some at government expense, some in real rifle competition and considers the AR worth tuning up. Currently he is loading tailored ammo for it. But he is looking at ways to get his PCC to shoot his regular PCP (Pistol Caliber Pistol) ammo reliably.
 
Carne Vore said:
Thanks to you , today put Hi-Point on my research list .
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I own both a Hi-Point 995TS and a Ruger PCC9. The Hi-Point is an inexpensive carbine that is reasonably accurate and fun to shoot. I would not personally consider it if self-defense is a consideration. I know that some will disagree.

There are multiple reasons. My particular carbine has not been very reliable with not infrequent failures to feed with a variety of FMJ 115 and 124 grain ammunition. This has prompted multiple calls to Hi-Point CS. A big limitation is the 10 round capacity of the single-stack, flush fit magazines. There is a 20 round magazine made by RedBall which is pretty reliable, but it sticks way out of the pistol grip in an awkward manner, and would make it very difficult to shoot from a prone position. Baring that magazine, you are limited to the Hi-Point 10 round magazines and I have found them to be very sketchy in quality. I have measured the width of the feed lips on my inventory of Hi-Point magazines and found considerable variation. I believe that poor quality control for the magazine production is probably responsible for most of the feed issues I have experienced.

The magazines will also often hang up inside the magazine well during a rapid magazine change if not inserted at the correct angle. It seems there is a little lip of some kind inside the magazine well that will tend to snag the top side edge of the magazine.

Even if you happen to get a reliable rifle and get around the magazine issues, there are other limitations. The controls are quite awkward to use in my hands. The charging handle is on the left side of the rifle, good for some but not all. It cannot be moved to the right side unless you drill and tap a hole in the bolt. Although the bolt does lock open on an empty magazine, if you need to clear the rifle by dropping a partially loaded magazine, ejecting a chambered round, and locking the bolt open it is quite awkward to do so. To lock the bolt open without an empty magazine in the rifle requires holding the bolt back with the charging handle while simultaneously pushing a collar on the charging handle machine screw into a circular cut-out in the steel dust cover. Releasing the bolt from this position is equally awkward. The safety is a thin piece of stamped metal which is difficult to either engage or disengage in a hurry, and I can't do either without shifting my hand out of the correct position on the pistol grip. Likewise, dropping a magazine with the release button requires shifting my shooting hand out of position, and I do not have small hands.

I have found the Ruger to be a much better designed and better built carbine.
 
I have repaired but one PSA made from parts AR 9 that a fellow stopped by with, it was a Glock mag gun. It worked pretty slick once the mag was adjusted to the gun. He said they have a regular class for pistol caliber carbines now at his matches. The high rise red dot and coincidence iron sights were pretty slick in the one mag test I ran. If you have AR pieces and parts it can be Frankensteined pretty cheap.
 
Jim Watson said:
Looking at it from the USPSA and IDPA ranges, the best entry level PCC is the Ruger PC. Looks like a big 10/22, generally reliable.

AR pattern 9mms are pretty uneven. I see more malfunctions with PCCs than pistols even though the carbines are a minority of entries.
PCC competitors are constantly tinkering with their guns and ammo in a search for the right setup for reliability, accuracy, and recoil management.
A good AR 9 is the result of paying for a major big brand name or doing a lot of tinkering with a "popularly priced" gun, and a bit of luck.

A friend has both a Ruger and a lower middle class AR. The Ruger is trouble free but he has long experience with the AR, some at government expense, some in real rifle competition and considers the AR worth tuning up. Currently he is loading tailored ammo for it. But he is looking at ways to get his PCC to shoot his regular PCP (Pistol Caliber Pistol) ammo reliably.
Click to expand...

As I stated in the other thread. My buddy has a PSA 9mm AR pistol. It takes Glock mags. It hasn't had a bobble in over 3k rounds. Maybe other companies should talk to PSA?
 
Texas10mm said:
As I stated in the other thread. My buddy has a PSA 9mm AR pistol. It takes Glock mags. It hasn't had a bobble in over 3k rounds. Maybe other companies should talk to PSA?
Click to expand...

Or Colt...

I've got a Colt AR6951 that's gone through multiple matches, a defensive carbine class and a a lot of practice sessions without an issue. The only jam I've had to date was when a 9mm MAK round got stuck in the chamber. Mine uses the Colt SMG mags and I do make it a point to use only the Metal Form mags Vs. the ASCs.
 
Ks5shooter said:
CX4-Storm:thumbup::thumbup:
Click to expand...

I second the CX-4...very accurate, easy to fire. Mine is in 9mm, so I have plenty of 17 round magazines plus a few with the +2 extender. It has the top rail for optics and a small bottom rail at the front of the stock for a light.

It’s my “go to” if I need something for home defense!

ACE0B20F-6216-462C-AB8C-8226310A5280.png
 
It's kinda like asking what car should I buy. There are tons of options out there. It really depends on what you plan to do with it and how much you are willing to spend. For the uses you state in the op I'd say the Ruger would be a really good choice.
I shoot competitions and I've had the Colt and it is a great gun. It's a pain for fast reloads but other than that it ran flawless. I now shoot a JP. It's great, but it ain't cheap.
 
The 9mm round nose bullets commonly used aren't especially good for killing animals quickly. They're good for plinking and may be okay for defense, but not really good defense-rifle bullets/rounds IMHO. Perhaps a lever-action .357 mag, .44 mag, or semi-auto or bolt .223 are more useful for farm/camp use. Picking a good bullet that expands quickly and doesn't tend to ricochet as much might be a better option. I also like rifles with low-powered scopes or variables because a low-powered scope multiplies the kill-shot zone many times over. A 2.5X scope has nearly the same aiming-accuracy as a 10X scope, yet is still quick at 25 yards. (BTW: all my rifles, except for the Ruger 10-22, are bolt-actions, but I don't feel under-gunned around the house because the shotgun is often a better choice).
 
Having a lot of fun with this. Masterpiece Arms Defender MPA20SST.
36 round magazine, 10 round magazines, pricey but available from MPA also.
 

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I’m a huge fan of 9mm carbines, but admittedly, I’m not terribly fond of AR9’s compared to dedicated carbine designs. The reintroduced Ruger PC9 has my full attention, especially with the PPSH-ish aesthetic of the Midwest Industries version. The other two common models have traditionally been the Hi-Point and the Kel-tec; the high point with poor aesthetic and barbaric quality, and the Kel-tec with only slightly more refined quality, but a relatively off-putting folding gimmick. The Beretta CX4 and HK USC are great entries in the class, if you like that space-age aesthetic, and I was personally excited by the Taurus entry a few years ago, as briefly as it lasted. The Sig Scorpion and MPX are probably my second favorite options in the current class, behind the Ruger - only because they’re in the AR9-ish realm a bit more than the others.

Personally, my money is being saved toward my SOT and an MP5 - I’ve been lusting over them for far too long. But until then, the Ruger does what I ask.
 
My experience with the Hi-Point is that they're heavy and feel cheap, but you don't notice that as much when you start shooting them. They're fun. Even the guys who hate the Hi-Point pistols (I don't mind them) usually admit "the carbines are OK."

The one Keltec Sub 2K I have shot was in 40 S&W, and the "buffer tube" kept slapping me in the cheek. I put one magazine through it and called it good. 40s are known to be snappy so maybe the 9mm is calmer. I am a huge sucker for light weight rifles and wanted to like the Keltec, but it just plain hurt to shoot. That's left me less than eager to drop $400 on a 9mm version just to see if it's any different

I have a Marlin Camp 9, looks classic and it's fun, but they are built pretty flimsy and they're getting expensive. As much as I like mine, I would say hard-pass on them unless you just have to have a wood-stocked 9mm PCC.

Zero experience with the Ruger, but it is sitting only about $100 away from Hi-Point land and offers far, far more features.
 
I've owned a high point .40 Cal and a Ruger PC9. I liked the hi point better. Only two gripes would be crappy low cap mags and it's hard to completely stripe down. Other then that the hi point was awesome. Haven't held the newer ones.
 
Jim Watson said:
Looking at it from the USPSA and IDPA ranges, the best entry level PCC is the Ruger PC. Looks like a big 10/22, generally reliable.

AR pattern 9mms are pretty uneven. I see more malfunctions with PCCs than pistols even though the carbines are a minority of entries.
PCC competitors are constantly tinkering with their guns and ammo in a search for the right setup for reliability, accuracy, and recoil management.
A good AR 9 is the result of paying for a major big brand name or doing a lot of tinkering with a "popularly priced" gun, and a bit of luck.

A friend has both a Ruger and a lower middle class AR. The Ruger is trouble free but he has long experience with the AR, some at government expense, some in real rifle competition and considers the AR worth tuning up. Currently he is loading tailored ammo for it. But he is looking at ways to get his PCC to shoot his regular PCP (Pistol Caliber Pistol) ammo reliably.
Click to expand...
Sounds like reasonable reliable experienced advise , so now I add the Ruger PC to my list . Many thanks .
 
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