Looking to buy my first "big boy" rifle

[Welding Rod]

Personally I would pass on a bolt gun. I have owned plenty, and still have 4 nice ones, but I find all they do for me is sit around and not get shot.

I would put an AR (perhaps and an AR 10 if you want to hunt) and a M1 Garand at the top of the list. After that maybe a M14 clone.

May as well get something that is really fun to shoot.

 

[12gaugeTim]

Undeniable fact of THR: any thread concerning bolt guns ever will invariably have mention of the accutrigger. It's that big of a selling point.

 

[RmB]

Sorry, this is completely off topic, but I have to know: Is your username referencing Methusalem/Methuselah from Redwall? Or the Hebrew Bible?

 

[HankB]

I have both .30/06 and .308 rifles. In a bolt gun I just happen to like .30/06, but honestly, neither paper targets nor deer sized game will be able to tell the difference between a hit by a .308 or a hit by a .30/06.

I think you can say the same thing about any round from .270 through most of the .300 magnums. A .30/06 has a little advantage for bigger game over the .308 since it seems to handle 180 and up bullet weights better, and it's probably still a little bit easier to find .30/06 ammo if you find yourself in West Dogpatch.

But both are fine rounds.

 

[JTHunter]

Methusalem - the .308 will have more "surplus" ammo available at a lower price, but, depending on the hunting you plan to do, might be a little too much gun for smaller game, specifically varmits. My 700 has a 3-9x40 Simmons and, with my reloads, I have gotten a 7-shot group (off of sandbags yet) at 200 yds. smaller than the palm of my hand. I reload 60 & 75 gr. hollowpoints (Speer) as well as a 100 gr. SPBT (also Speer) (soft-point boattail) using Accurate Arms 2230 powder for all loads. These are on a mix of re-used brass which may explain why the grouping wasn't tighter.
The .243 has a slight advantage over the .308 in that it has smaller loads for smaller game available to it. If you don't plan on shooting any prairiedogs, groundhogs (woodchucks), or coyotes, stay with the .308.
Good shooting!

 

[x_wrench]

223 is capable of hunting deer. but you will have to make CERTAIN of a fast twist (1 in 8" vs 1 in 12 or 14") rate to stabilize the heavier bullets needed for doing so. punching a hole in a deer with a 40 grain varmint bullet is going to be a very unforgiving experience, unless the shot is in the ear or eye. IMO, the 308 is a much better cartridge all around. while the ammo is not quite as cheap, it is much more potent. if you look at is as cost vs. power, the 308 wins hands down. as for models, i am not up on all the new stuff. but a good used Remington 700 would be very doable in your price range. just be aware, that the 308 is another one of those twist rate guns. if you want to shoot heavier bullets in it, you need the 1 in 10" twist rate, not the 1 in 14". the 1 in 14" works fine up to about 150 grains. but after that, things start going haywire. the accuracy falls off, the bullet can start tumbling in flight, etc.

 

[Methusalem]

Sorry, this is completely off topic, but I have to know: Is your username referencing Methusalem/Methuselah from Redwall? Or the Hebrew Bible?

haha you need to know?

It's my nick from back when I played shooters competitively, and it just kind of stuck around. I believe I initially took it from the Hebrew bible.

 

[Methusalem]

Personally I would pass on a bolt gun. I have owned plenty, and still have 4 nice ones, but I find all they do for me is sit around and not get shot.

I would put an AR (perhaps and an AR 10 if you want to hunt) and a M1 Garand at the top of the list. After that maybe a M14 clone.

May as well get something that is really fun to shoot.

Why the Garand? Yeah they're really preeeeetty, and a piece of history, but I seem to be more drawn toward modern guns. May also have to do with me not having grown up in the US though.

As for the AR-15... can someone recommend some good websites that give overviews of the different part manufacturers, their overall quality/price ratio, some reviews? I'm still somewhat lost in the parts jungle here.

 

[Still Shooting]

.223 vs .308 (Or Other)

I'm am "old guy," and it means I have lots of opinions. Fortunately, it also means I have lots of rifles! I have hunted deer in NY, VT, and MT. I also shoot target a lot, 'cause I'm a reloader in search of the "Holy Grail" for each of my rifles.

I own a S&W MP15 flattop. I started deer hunting 50 years ago, with a borrowed 6.5x55 Swede - a great cartridge, BTW. My high school graduation gift from Dad was a Remington 760 in .270, and I hunted that through my 20's and into my 30's. I no longer own the Remington 760; now I have a Ruger M77 Mk II, and it shoots 1/2 moa @100yds. It will push a 150gr. bullet at 3,000fps to do that, and it's equally good with 130gr. loads for deer.

I have owned, hunted, and liked, a pre-64 Win Model 70 in '06. I have also owned and hunted a Weatherby Vanguard in .308. My current go-to gun for deer is a Ruger 77 (early) in .257 Roberts, but this year up north in NY State where I live, there are bears all over the place (including in my driveway 2 nights ago!). I am hunting my .270 with 150gr. loads for that reason. My wife has decided to leave her .243 Ruger ultralight at home, and hunt the Savage Model 99C in .308. -Both good for deer, and suitable to take a black bear down.

Yesterday in the woods, I listened to shots on the next ridge over. The rifle was semiauto, and clearly an AR. I heard the idiot fire 9 rounds at what I presume was a deer, followed by silence, then another 5 rounds. BTW, in NY the max. magazine capacity s 10 rd., and only 6 when hunting (5+1 in chamber). IMHO the .223 is NOT a good deer cartridge - multiple shots and running animal = tough, strong-tasting venison!

I think you're on-track with the idea of a .308. I love my Rugers, but they often need a little "tweaking" of bedding to make them really accurate. I also own a Savage 11FHNS in 7mmWSM, Accutrigger, and it shoots an honest 1/2moa. As others will tell you, the Savage bolts aren't pretty, but they're real accurate. I bought the 7mm short magnum because in 20 minutes I can change the barrel and have a .300WSM.

If you will primarily be hunting Eastern half of the US for the next few years, I think the .308 is "right on" for the only centerfire rifle, although a .270 might be an equally good choice.

 

[mljdeckard]

It's not that we don't love Garands and AR-10s. But they are a whole separate project. Scoping a Garand requires a special mount and an optic with a longer eye relief. Garands are tuned for a specific load of -06. To shoot commercial loads, you need to modify the gas system. AR-10s are in a whole different price bracket from what this guy wants to do.

 

[coolluke01]

There are many AR15 sites that will bash every brand out there and make you very confused! Anyone that is "into" AR's will have many preferences from fully mill spec'd to chrome lined vs. SS to what is and isn't staked.

This is all very unnecessary for the average shooter and even most likely for those that think it is the end of the world if you don't have a fully staked gas block.
I think just about any AR will give you 1-1.5" groups at 100 yards. Far better than you will likely be able to do in the beginning. (not meaning to disparage your skill)

AR's are tons of fun, but you go through the ammo quick with them.

 

[iscareliberalsandlikeit]

I suggest you look at the ruger American, I like a nice Remington 700 as much as the next guy but Remington has suffered quality control issues, and after a couple lemons, I have cut my losses and lost faith. With all the updated features, it's a easy comparison...if your intention is to tinker, the American may not be for you. Gunblast.com has a really good review of of it if you're looking. As for caliber you will enjoy .308. If you decide to reload, it very versatile, inherently accurate, and will reach out to 600yrd should you feel the need.

 

[Welding Rod]

Why the Garand? Yeah they're really preeeeetty, and a piece of history, but I seem to be more drawn toward modern guns. May also have to do with me not having grown up in the US though.

Hey its all good, what every you like. I just haven't seen anyone on a firing line that wasn't drawn to the M1. It seems everyone wants to shoot it and gets all "school boy" when the iron sighted 30-06 rocks the 200 yard gongs from a kneeling or standing position, followed by a clip ejection.

Hard to explain until you try it. The sights are awesome, the wood feels warm to the touch, the heft feels like you could club someone to death with it if need be. The big cartridges are soft to shoot, the brass is easy to find on the ground, and it is easy to load. When you shoot something with it, it gets shot pretty hard.

It is a gun that is best to load for though as the proper factory ammo is limited and pretty expensive compared to say .223, and factory ammo that isn't designed for the M! may damage the gun. Reloaded ammo with the wrong powder may damage the gun too.

I have more ARs than Garands myself. And I certainly think every shooter's collection needs some ARs for SHTF scenarios and some competitive events. But the Garand probably runs my fun meter higher.

I learned alot about ARs on AR15.com. It is was my favorite AR sight, though I don't go there too much anymore - after some years of daily reading things just tend to be repeats.

 

[justice06rr]

A good .308 bolt rifle like the Rem700 would be a good starting point IMO. I definitely feel you on the budget thing; its hard to buy firearms when the wallet disagrees! lol

Also if you are somewhat interested in the AR15 platform I suggest buying a stripped lower receiver for now and slowly build it over time. There are plenty of videos to show you how to build it, and the lower receiver should be the starting point as its the part requiring an FFL/background check.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

For your current circumstances the .308 would appear to be perfect. Just to make your decision a little more interesting ....

I would like to plug for a 6.5x55mm. I like the older established calibres and have one in a CZ550 which is 0.5MOA after bedding it. The only issue is that one would need to reload to get the maximum out of the rifle if you really want to chase speed or a multitude of bullet weights. You can however shoot it as it is with great results. Recoil is very tolerable.

Both the 6.5mm or perhaps the .243 would then allow you to get a companion calibre with a bit more oomph. I elected the 6.5mm over the .243 due to the range of bullet weights and great sectional density (read penetration). Shoots 120, 140 and 160gr. well, I leave the 160 weights to the 30-06 however. Where I come from many ranch owners allow a minimum of a .243, the reason being the amount of wounded animals recovered for hunters which is both time consuming and irritating for the ranch owner. If at the last minute you decide to shoot say a Kudu cow well you simply will not be permitted to do so on farms I have been to.

Companion calibres could be a 30-06, 300WM etc. Then you will have all the deer type animals covered.

I believe in what Robert Ruark said (not everything mind). Use enough gun, not too much and not too little. The .223 for me is more than marginal as a deer gun and allows for the perfect shot but will have you in trouble in heavier brush and if the animal suddenly moves on your shot.

Good luck on your choice

 

[mwsenoj]

Haven't read the whole post, so forgive me if this is redundant info, but a Rem SPS Tactical might be right up your alley. I have shot Berger 75gr bullets in mine with good success out to 600 yds. I have even won a local match with it (2-3-600 yds against a couple of not so serious shooters). Also, this gun can be loaded up with some V-max pills and crank out 3300 FPS with the 50 grainers and would do terrible things to prarie dogs and yotes. Sure the stock sucks, but just eat cheaper a couple of nights a week (or cut out the beer fund) and save up for a Bell and Carlson etc.

 

[fatcat4620]

Go to the local pawn shops with CASH green money and say you need a deer rifle. You should be able to pick one up in 30.06 for like 250 if you flash the cash and work out a deal.