Losing “Faith” in a handgun for EDC

[trackskippy]

The second time I found the safety on my IWB-holsterd Kimber, I sent it to the factory. Told them to stiffen up the safety detent. They said 'no' and sent it back. I sold it. I will lose faith in any gun that can easily and accidentally made unsafe.

Ive had a couple of 1911's that had that issue as they came. The way to deal with it, is to drill the detent in the safety a tad deeper, and its usually remedied.

 

[Terry G]

Complete faith in every gun I carry for self defense. I would shoot 200 rounds, detail clean it, then not worry. I did have second thoughts once about my favorite CZ P-01. I was shooting the LEOSA course and had a failure to feed. I ripped the magazine for an emergency re load and finished the course of fire but I wasn't happy about the malfunction. I found out the malfunction was me. Somehow I got a target staple stuck in the magazine. No wonder it wouldn't feed.

 

[trackskippy]

I think the difference here is constant failures vs occasional failures. They are two different things.

The first would be the deal breaker, the other, just normal stuff. If your shooting enough, youre going to see the occasional stoppages, for whatever reason, and if youre not seeing them, then you should be setting them up.

Shooting regularly in practice isnt just about accuracy. Its about knowing your gun and what to do when things might go wrong. Thats the time to figure things out, and those sorts of things should be regularly practiced as well.

If and when they happen, you want to be at the point in your skill set of instantly executing the malfunction drill and continuing on. You dont want to be that guy standing there, mouth agape, staring at the gun with a stupid look on your face thinking ***?

 

[bassjam]

I've only had one handgun that had multiple hiccups, and yes I stopped trusting it. It was a Glock 23 that had a habit of splitting brass that wouldn't eject from the chamber without the help of a dowel rod. Maybe I could have contacted Glock, I bought it secondhand so not sure if it matters. But I didn't care for the gun regardless of it's reliability issues, I never got used to the grip angle and wasn't exactly in love with striker fired guns so I just got rid of it to someone who was aware of the issue but wanted it anyway.

Past that almost everything has been reliable out of the box. My first LCP had a couple FTF's in the first 100 rounds but I fully expected that from such a small gun. My second LCP ran like a champ from day one.

 

[ms6852]

Like most of you, I own several guns, and I have complete faith in all of them. If I did not I would not own that gun. For me I do not carry all the guns, in my 50 years of carrying I carry 3 that I never deviate from. A 1911 Springfield loaded full size, this gun continued to function throughout a range session even though I was not aware that the recoil spring plug had come off. I must not have tightened the plug with the Allen key enough, after that I changed the recoil spring assembly to one not requiring a key. Second gun I carry is the 686 with 3" barrel, this has now become my main carry, and a 3rd one that I carry around the house is a 911 or during workouts.

All guns will eventually fail because they are mechanical and if a gun requires a magazine, all magazines have a shelf life. The problems I have noticed with new shooters and their EDC's is a lack of familiarity or buy the cheapest firearm they can afford to protect their lives because they cannot afford to practice and shoot what they carry. There is a difference between cheap and inexpensive and I believe problems occur with "cheap" guns because of a lack of quality control, not to say that you won't experience it with a more expensive firearm but it is less likely to occur on a better quality built gun.

 

[Riomouse911]

I am much more likely to find a magazine or two I can’t trust than the actual gun it’s being fired in. I have great guns and occasionally get a goofy mag, because if the gun shoots poorly with many mags it won’t ever make it to carry status.

I mark all my mags, those with a history of stoppages get resprung and culled into the practice/play bin.

I will find a new gun that fits my needs I’ll swap after enough familiarization and shooting. That’s pretty rare though.

Stay safe.

 

[UncleEd]

Total faith in Smith revolver(s).

Know them inside and out.
Know their potential trouble
spots, weaknesses.

 

[Tallball]

I have a lot of random handguns. Most of them are range toys. I don't care if range toys misfire on a rare occasion or not.

Since I have plenty of firearms to choose from, my CC and HD choices are always in the "100% reliable" category.

 

[C-grunt]

To me it really depends on the problems, what caused them, and round counts.

My first duty handgun was Glock 22. At around 14k rounds the slide stop spring broke and the slide stop would randomly engage while firing. Took it to our armorers, luckily it happened at the department range, and they fixed that as well as some other worn parts that were likely to fail in the near future. New parts were put in and the gun ran flawlessly again for a few thousand more rounds before I switched to a Glock 21 (then to a 17) for work.

However, my first duty rifle was a Bushmaster AR15. That thing I didnt trust at all. It had multiple trigger components fail the first week during our 40 hour rifle course. That thing would also eat gas rings on the bolt. Like every 1500 rounds. It wasnt just my gun either. We had problems with pretty much all of the Bushmasters. Malfunctions were definitely a thing on longer training days. To be fair, that rifle ran pretty reliably normally and was way more accurate than a chrome lined run of the mill AR should be. But it would break parts and start malfunctioning if run hard and hot and definitely had premature wear on the bolt carrier group.

I still used it at work because rifle>handgun. But I definitely trained transition drills religiously and it was always in the back of my mind that the gun could fail me at any time.

Switching to properly built rifles (Colt 6920) solved the issues. I have over 10k rounds through my Colt and Im on my 2nd set of gas rings.

 

[tomrkba]

One of the weirdest things I keep reading in the interwebs is shooters that have lost faith in a handgun if it malfunctions. Even if it went back to the manufacturer and was repaired and showed to work.

I have not liked a pistol that had to be repaired a few times, and sold them off. But they all worked, and if I had to would carry it. But I never thought it wouldn’t work. They are, after all, mechanical things and are prone to breakage. Even my beloved Glocks have failed, but I repaired them and keep in shooting them.

For those that think like this, and I’m not judging nor making fun of, what goes through your mind when your pistol breaks or has the same malfunction over and over again? Do you not trust it anymore? Or do you try to fix it and go on?

And yes I have had lemons, but always had the manufacture repair it. Never though it wouldn’t fire or not work after that.

People are dumb and superstitious. The answer has nothing to do with emotion. Either the gun works after it is repaired, or it needs more work. Testing it is up to you.

For example, I have a 1911 that I really like. If I took it to the range and shot 100 rounds every week, cleaned it after each trip, and lubricated it correctly, I would say it's 100% reliable. That same gun always starts jamming around 150-175 rounds without cleaning. All I had to do to test it is shoot it past 100 rounds to find out. You'll have to pick a number and test to see if it gives you confidence. If the gun goes, for example, 500 rounds or more without failure, and you find yourself questioning the gun, then that's your emotion getting in the way of the empirical evidence.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

One of the weirdest things I keep reading in the interwebs is shooters that have lost faith in a handgun if it malfunctions. Even if it went back to the manufacturer and was repaired and showed to work.
.
.
.
For those that think like this, and I’m not judging nor making fun of, what goes through your mind when your pistol breaks or has the same malfunction over and over again? Do you not trust it anymore? Or do you try to fix it and go on?

And yes I have had lemons, but always had the manufacture repair it. Never though it wouldn’t fire or not work after that.

The internet is full of people with views/opinions that span the full spectrum from one extreme to another. And like most things, the real answer lies somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

The real question(s) are what the failure was, what the root cause of the failure was, was the failure was recurring, is there a history of such failures with this particular model, etc.

If a firearm demonstrates a history of failure, that's one thing. If it's a history of failure with a cause identified and corrected, that's another thing.

Which means the ultimate resolution to the matter of faith in the reliability of a firearm for me is heavily based on the specifics and circumstances of any given firearm failure/ repair.

 

[Lo-Profile]

Only one gun I've owned got sent back, was a revolver that literally feel apart the first time shooting it. Company paid for shipping both ways and they're customer service answered the phone on the second ring without a lot of button pushing. Came back and had been flawless since.
Parts wear, parts break ... Replace them and move on.

 

[MedWheeler]

tomrkba writes:

For example, I have a 1911 that I really like. If I took it to the range and shot 100 rounds every week, cleaned it after each trip, and lubricated it correctly, I would say it's 100% reliable. That same gun always starts jamming around 150-175 rounds without cleaning.

I have a Grendel P10 from around 1988 (purchased when a rep showed up at my agency peddling them as potential OD/BU guns.) Once cleaned, it will shoot a full ten-round magazine properly every time. It may get through a second without a failure. It will NOT get through a third.

All that is fine because, if you use a P10 in a fight, that first magazine is all you're gonna have.

So, yeah, it would be good to go for self-defense, but unreliable for anything beyond that, like your 1911.

 

[SeanSw]

Just adding some flavor to the conversation, I have owned maybe 8 ruger revolvers. Four of them purchased brand new. Two LCRs and two SP101s all in slightly different configurations. One of the SP101s was DOA. DOA and DAO as a matter of fact. The hammer dog was rusted in place and spring jammed preventing it from cycling. It was easy to identify and I cleaned it up rather than make the phone call and it never caused a problem again. Both LCRs functioned perfectly but one of them had an out of spec cylinder gap. They fixed it promptly and it didn't effect out of the box function. Overall I've actually had worse luck with new guns than used guns. I had an LCP that couldn't be trusted as a paperweight and a Taurus TCP that broke the extractor on the first magazine, if not that very first shot.

My best value for new firearms have probably been a springfield XD 45, XD-S 9mm, LCR, and S&W M&P Sport 15. I can't recall a single failure of any kind with any of them. I have others like that but none of them were purchased new.

 

[MedWheeler]

SeanSw writes:

My best value for new firearms have probably been a springfield XD 45, XD-S 9mm, LCR, and S&W M&P Sport 15.

I bought one of those in 2014, followed quickly by ammunition for it. One day, I really need to try it out.

 

[Tirod]

I read those same posts: purchased, shot, malfunction, repair, trade it away on something else.

One thing I find common is the owner has a lot of firearms and it's no loss. Another is that they are imputing faith in a mechanical object, along with a heightened sense of expectations. "It should feed and fire ANYTHING I put in it." No, not really, firearms designed to be reliable and which you can trust, even put faith in, use premium ammo and require a schedule of maintenance. But, no, white box creeps onto the bench at the range, and running it dirty considered mandatory.

Often it's a behavioral quirk of that model - which has nothing to do with being reliable. But, no, it's defective if it does XX instead of XY. And how many do we read of that went thru Customer Service and never exhibited the flaw again - but, no, it was tainted and gotten rid of.

If the manufacturer won't offer a feature in the manner I wish, then I either learn how to alter it, or have someone do that. Others? nope, sell it off.

What we have are members of a generation who cannot accept anything less than their sense of perfection, demanding it from a commodity gun often selling for $499.

Entitlement.

Keep reading and you will see it creeping out.

 

[trackskippy]

I buy basically stock guns (night sights are a big upgrade ) and just shoot the hell out of them. Never really had many problems with the brands more known for reliability, which is a bunch of them.

I always figured it was better to be comfortable with stock guns, than limiting myself to the high maintenance girls, I mean guns.

More money for ammo, and I don't usually have any trouble shooting anything I pick up. Just keep after them cleaning and maintenance wise, and most are trouble free, until you start to actually wear things out.

 

[Jackalope 1]

I have guns that have broken several times and I keep using them. Shooting tens of thousands of round a season through a handgun in competition your going to break parts even if it's just the occasional spring. That has never bothered me, I frequently fixed them myself it possible, and I have continued to use them.

The one I did loose confidence in was a Kahr CW9. The trigger bar broke before I had 1000 rds through it. Went back to the factory for a very VERY slow repair and when I finally got it back it would light strike about 2-3 rds in a box of 50 rds (factory not reloads). I could never get that problem to go away and I traded it because it was bought as a carry gun and that type of unreliability is not going to cut it with me. I really liked the ergos of that gun but the early breakage and then light strikes made it not a viable gun for me.

Sounds to me like it needed a trip to Cylinder and Slide for their special WIZARDING in solving gun problems. I've always been really really afraid of trading off any gun that fails to work properly, just in case some checako ( greenhorn ) would end up buying said gun and end up losing his life because he in inexperienced realizing the problem when it occurred. But then it's my way of thinking.

 

[mcb]

Sounds to me like it needed a trip to Cylinder and Slide for their special WIZARDING in solving gun problems. I've always been really really afraid of trading off any gun that fails to work properly, just in case some checako ( greenhorn ) would end up buying said gun and end up losing his life because he in inexperienced realizing the problem when it occurred. But then it's my way of thinking.

Maybe but by that point I was frustrated with the gun and time invested so it was not worth the effort or the cost to me. I traded it to a buddy, with full disclosure of the history and issues, and he took a try at fixing it, he was fledgling gunsmith that now works for a fairly well know custom competition gun makers. Not sure what he ever did with it. He bought and traded handguns at a staggering rate.

 

[Jackalope 1]

Just reading that made my shooting hand ache a little.

That Owl you show getting ready to TALON HOOK the itty bitty mouse why do I feel all of us law abiding gun owners are FAST becoming that little mouse????

 

[Jackalope 1]

I think the difference here is constant failures vs occasional failures. They are two different things.

The first would be the deal breaker, the other, just normal stuff. If your shooting enough, youre going to see the occasional stoppages, for whatever reason, and if youre not seeing them, then you should be setting them up.

Shooting regularly in practice isnt just about accuracy. Its about knowing your gun and what to do when things might go wrong. Thats the time to figure things out, and those sorts of things should be regularly practiced as well.

If and when they happen, you want to be at the point in your skill set of instantly executing the malfunction drill and continuing on. You dont want to be that guy standing there, mouth agape, staring at the gun with a stupid look on your face thinking ***?

I agree with you, when first using my Colt Woodsman Match Target, nib it would fire 2-3 rnds, lightly indent the next round, so after a second meticulous cleaning, reassembly problem still occurred, called Colt was told bad improperly tempered batch of springs, new set on its way. Replaced springs, fired flawlessly and still does so many years later.

 

[Wishoot]

I had 2 LCPs, both sometimes failed to eject. Guns were clean, factory .380 ammo, and were shot a good bit. I’ve strong hands and am very experienced with pistols of all sizes.

Ruger replaced slide assy on both but it didn’t help much. I could not see why or what the problem was, and never trusted them.

Had this issue with my LCPII. It's basically sitting in a safe collecting dust. Eventually, I'll send it back to Ruger.

Now my original LCP has been a reliable workhorse. Not as pleasant to shoot as the II, but it does shoot.

 

[RealGun]

The second time I found the safety on my IWB-holsterd Kimber, I sent it to the factory. Told them to stiffen up the safety detent. They said 'no' and sent it back. I sold it. I will lose faith in any gun that can easily and accidentally made unsafe.

But a lot has to happen for a 1911 to fire. The "safety" switch is only one element. I just feel my CDP Pro Custom Compact once in awhile to make sure the safety is engaged and didn't get bumped somehow. I carry ready to fire, so the holster covering the trigger has a lot to do with safety.

 

[commygun]

I really see both sides of the argument, but I’m not going to carry a pistol that doesn’t have my trust. Keep it for plinking, hunting, or historical interest, sure.
Probably some psychological quirk, but I find my renewed trust is greatest in the guns that I learned to fix myself.

 

[MedWheeler]

Slightly different angle on the question... you've been carrying a particular gun for a while and all has been good and well, but you begin hearing of others experiencing issues with the same model, like even people you know (or even respected members here), issues that began after you started carrying yours. Would such reports test your confidence in your sample, prompting you to go wring it out and see if your experience changes?