Lot to Lot Variability With Factory Centerfire Ammo?

[Turkeytider]

Being relatively new to rifle shooting ,can or does this exist? I`m fully aware that rimfire ammo in general, and 17HMR in particular, is notorious for lot to lot and even within lot variations in performance. I`ve not experienced enough use of various lots of the same loads in my .223. Today, however, I did get what appears to be some variability from a previous lot of 55 grain OTM Frontier rounds. Thanks.

 

[Frostbite]

Yes, centerfire ammunition also varies, but a lot less than rimfire in my experience. Premium ammunition varies less than affordable options in both instances. I am curious to read other experiences, good thread idea.

 

[Ethan Verity]

I have observed different brands of primers being used by the same company (Hornady) from one lot to the next. It's especially obvious when one lot is brass primers, and the next is nickle plated primers. I have also noticed their brass, though always headstamped with the Hornady name, will also vary slightly from lot to lot. Little things, like the shape of the rim or if the primer pocket has a bevel or not. Bullets as well, one lot may have slightly deeper hollow point petal cuts than the next, etc.

 

[Turkeytider]

Yes, centerfire ammunition also varies, but a lot less than rimfire in my experience. Premium ammunition varies less than affordable options in both instances. I am curious to read other experiences, good thread idea.

Yes, the variance I experienced today was certainly not major, the rounds going consistently about .5" higher than from the previous lot. I dialed a couple of clicks down in elevation and corrected. Was shooting at a 1" target dot at 100 yards. It was enough, though, to prompt the question I thought.

 

[Rubone]

I cannot speak from experience, however from observation I recently bought a mixed bunch of .270WSM ammo from a guy who got it from a known long distance competitor. I immediately noticed that every box was a partial, even though all else being equal than lot numbers, and determined that the shooter was logging the info for reference and not mixing lots. It meant little to me as I purchased it for hunting ammo and other than projectile weight didn't really care, at the ranges I hunt it is fine in mixed lots. But for a precision shooter I could easily accept his desire for consistency and hence documentation. I did not get the documentation, merely the partial boxes of various lots.

 

[Varminterror]

I don’t shoot much centerfire factory ammo, but I have a few loads for which I’ve ended up shooting several different lots in sufficient volume under sufficiently stringent circumstances to have noticed variability, or lack thereof.

My wife and I shot something over ten thousand of rounds of Remington UMC 50grn JHP and 55grn ball over several years between ~2009 and ~, and it was exceptionally consistent from lot to lot. It wasn’t particularly high performing, but it was the same lot by lot, year by year. The consistency between lots has been clean enough that we never had to rezero or adjust velocity for 0-800yrd shooting with these. The 50 JHP’s were much more accurate than the 55 ball, but unfortunately, orders were shipped incorrectly more than once - but they shot well enough to be interesting.

I’ve seen some lot-to-lot drift in .30-06 Winchester 150 grn Ballistic Silvertips, but remarkably little for the number of years I have shot these. I’d be something around 25yrs with this load and somewhere around 3000 rounds of this factory ammo. I have tended to buy 4-5 boxes at a time of the same lot to be able to rezero and determine a new velocity and still be able to make it out of a deer season.

Hornady Leverevolution 45-70 325grn FTX is another of the same paradigm where we only buy it for hunting and moderate practice during the year in preparation, and we’ve likely shot something around 2000 rounds of this in the last ~13yrs, likely out of 25-30 lots. We only shoot out to 300yrds typically with this, and velocity has been consistent enough that we haven’t had to rezero or adjust velocity in the calculator.

One which surprised me - Hornady Black Match 123grn 6.5 Grendel. I shot a bunch of this stuff for a few years and was never able to source more than 100-200rnds of it at a time (at that time). MOST lots were ok, but I always checked when I changed lots, since I was using this stuff for long range classes, matches, and practices. Out of maybe 30 lots of this stuff is shot in a few years, most would wiggle around a pretty consistent velocity, but I had at least one lot which shot much higher ES’s than common. Vertical dispersion was terrible downrange, and I noticed I was reading ~75ES on 10 shot groups, which was around double the common ES for that load. It still shot really small at 100, but groups got really tall downrange.

 

[Turkeytider]

Thanks everybody. It would appear that it`s certainly not out of the realm of possibility to have some mv variability with different lots, allowing for some (usually minor ) shifts in the vertical.

 

[Simplereloader81]

My opinion, factory ammos got a touch worse since these ammo scares started. Manufacturers dont seem to put the same care into it because they dont need to....everything sells so fast. IMHO

 

[Remington1911]

Thanks everybody. It would appear that it`s certainly not out of the realm of possibility to have some mv variability with different lots, allowing for some (usually minor ) shifts in the vertical.

I think/know it does. And if you go from Mfg to mfg you really should re zero your rifle at the very least. Now I reload everything I shoot but rimfire, sometimes because it is just not available on the open market, sometimes because the cost on the open market is crazy, and always to get things as stable as possible.

A few years ago I bought a Savage 99 in 243....really fun little rifle.....this was pre covid so ammo existed. The wife is at walmart and I ask her to get a couple boxes of different 243 ammo, different makers different bullet weights, you know the drill. When possible I like to shoot some factory for a base line, then I will use my hand loads against that. At work so I don't have the numbers handy but I do remember one maker has FPS numbers over 100fps off from the average, and that rifle did not like that ammo as well.

That is only my first hand experience with a wide range of factory ammo. I tend to like old military guns so you generally don't have a lot of choices when it comes to 8mm Label.

One thing I will say is there is no factory load that shoots "better" in any of my rifles over my reloads. And with "better" I am talking group sizes.

Now there are some VERY good commercial ammo for different calibers out there, and you do pay for that.

I can't speak to "quality" post covid during all the shortages, but it seems like the above poster comment would ring true, they are cranking them out as fast as they can, something is more likely to slip.

 

[Turkeytider]

I think/know it does. And if you go from Mfg to mfg you really should re zero your rifle at the very least. Now I reload everything I shoot but rimfire, sometimes because it is just not available on the open market, sometimes because the cost on the open market is crazy, and always to get things as stable as possible.

A few years ago I bought a Savage 99 in 243....really fun little rifle.....this was pre covid so ammo existed. The wife is at walmart and I ask her to get a couple boxes of different 243 ammo, different makers different bullet weights, you know the drill. When possible I like to shoot some factory for a base line, then I will use my hand loads against that. At work so I don't have the numbers handy but I do remember one maker has FPS numbers over 100fps off from the average, and that rifle did not like that ammo as well.

That is only my first hand experience with a wide range of factory ammo. I tend to like old military guns so you generally don't have a lot of choices when it comes to 8mm Label.

One thing I will say is there is no factory load that shoots "better" in any of my rifles over my reloads. And with "better" I am talking group sizes.

Now there are some VERY good commercial ammo for different calibers out there, and you do pay for that.

I can't speak to "quality" post covid during all the shortages, but it seems like the above poster comment would ring true, they are cranking them out as fast as they can, something is more likely to slip.

Yes, I`ve re-zeroed for all my different hunting loads and recorded those for future reference, also my different target loads. I`ve just not had much experience with different lots of the same loads from the same brand. I don`t reload and have found myself wondering what my Savage 110 in .223 could REALLY do with a tuned hand load. It`s a hunting rifle in every respect as opposed to a precision target rifle but routinely shoots under 1" at 100 yards as far as POA vs. POI ( accuracy ) is concerned with pretty much everything I run through it.

 

[GooseGestapo]

When I started reloading in 1970, it was common knowledge among shooting enthusiasts that there could be significant lot to lot variation in factory ammo. The point of reloading to be to reduce the various variables for improved consistency and of course accuracy.
Also, the now familiar names such as Sierra, Speer, and Hornady were considered to be “premium” products and such as Nosler were considered “boutique” level.

Now days, other than lack of availability, lot to lot consistency is MUCH better! Due to improvement in manufacturing machinery, and tighter manufacturing specifications variability is greatly reduced.

I was in a discussion with another shooter/reloader yesterday at the range and we concluded that the Remington Corlokts and old Federal “Blue Box” Power Shock were the go-to’s to determine the base level accuracy for a new rifle.
Overall, quality of new rifles has improved also.

Now, if Remington can get caught up and start selling components again! I’m down to less than 30 .35Rem 200gr Corlokts. Before the bankruptcy, they had deleted the scalloped jackets (internal jacket taper too!) resulting in a bullet likely to separate the jackets from core. Much less accurate, too! The “New” Remington ammunition wisely has returned to the “Old” Corlokts design., but haven’t produced a run of .35Remington yet...

 

[Picher]

I've come to buying boxes of empty rifle cases and loading my own "new" ammo. After the first firing, I get more serious about shooting groups, because the cases are more uniform. I may even trim the once-fired cases to make them more uniform.

 

[Remington1911]

I've come to buying boxes of empty rifle cases and loading my own "new" ammo. After the first firing, I get more serious about shooting groups, because the cases are more uniform. I may even trim the once-fired cases to make them more uniform.

One thing I have found with new brass, and I have had this happen with new Norma brass was the brass was just a tick to long and needed to be trimmed. The brass in question was Norma 3006 bought about a year ago, and 6.5 Carcano. Never had an issue with other brands.

Just tossing that out there.