98bluewave
Member
Can you provide a source for Glock's anti-seize compound? I've seen it used on my new Glocks and would like to continue using it. Thanks!
Lubricate the slide?
- Thread starter cal44mag
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Can you provide a source for Glock's anti-seize compound? I've seen it used on my new Glocks and would like to continue using it. Thanks!
Speedo66
Member
I'm just using regular automotive anti-seize, Permatex brand, available at any auto parts store in bottles and tubes.
I don't ever see people at the range with lube issues, unless it is no lube.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/best-gun-oil.801479/page-2#post-10238588
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/best-gun-oil.801479/page-2#post-10310086
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/best-gun-oil.801479/page-2#post-10238588
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/best-gun-oil.801479/page-2#post-10310086
I'm guessing that Glock probably used/uses Henkle copper anti-seize?
But in 1997 Henkel acquired Loctite. Loctite calls it's C5A a "Copper Based Anti-Seize Lubricant"
There are some copper anti-seize compounds that have ground up quartz crystals in it - Loctite C5A is one of those:
http://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Che...Lubricants/Anti-Seize-Lubricants/234263-30769
I'll pass on putting ground quartz in my gun.
The Permatex copper anti-seize does not have ground up quartz crystals in it.
But in 1997 Henkel acquired Loctite. Loctite calls it's C5A a "Copper Based Anti-Seize Lubricant"
There are some copper anti-seize compounds that have ground up quartz crystals in it - Loctite C5A is one of those:
http://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Che...Lubricants/Anti-Seize-Lubricants/234263-30769
I'll pass on putting ground quartz in my gun.
The Permatex copper anti-seize does not have ground up quartz crystals in it.
Glock uses Loctite C5A on their new guns. I have not seen or heard any recommendations from Glock suggesting that Loctite C5A should be used for the continuing lubrication of Glock pistols. What Glock does recommend is that owners of new Glocks should leave the anti-seize in place until it wears away. I have taken that to mean that it plays some sort of a break-in role but they do not expand on the recommendation at all.
Anti seize by it's literal name and purpose is for mechanical connections which are static, not moving. Lug nuts, bolts, etc., which hold parts in a fixed relationship. The copper reduces corrosion from creeping into the joint, some compounds use aluminum to prevent galvanic action between parts which could suffer damage. Quartz? I can only assume it's meant to act as tiny friction points to offset the loss from having grease in the threads of a fastener because engineers usually spec them as a dry fit to achieve the correct torque value. Off the top of my head you could do the same with a pinch of road dust. Nobody recommends putting a friction multiplier between two moving parts.
This is a classic example of the general public misapplying automotive solutions when they don't understand the underlying technology. Just because "car" does not ensure the proper application is being considered. It's like the crowd who suggest thread locking compounds on AR15 barrel nuts as an accuracy improver. I've always called for before and after targets in a scientific protocol to prove it and get nothing back. The reality is the general public likes to tinker with things, it's a learning experience. Most don't severely damage the gun, but every now and then you find one for sale and checking the action you have to ask, "What were they thinking?" You can Bubba a gun thru the use of inappropriate automotive solutions as easily as a Dremel. Powdered quartz in a fixed joint anti corrosion compound has no place between moving parts. In the threads of the barrel nut? Ok, I did.
This is a classic example of the general public misapplying automotive solutions when they don't understand the underlying technology. Just because "car" does not ensure the proper application is being considered. It's like the crowd who suggest thread locking compounds on AR15 barrel nuts as an accuracy improver. I've always called for before and after targets in a scientific protocol to prove it and get nothing back. The reality is the general public likes to tinker with things, it's a learning experience. Most don't severely damage the gun, but every now and then you find one for sale and checking the action you have to ask, "What were they thinking?" You can Bubba a gun thru the use of inappropriate automotive solutions as easily as a Dremel. Powdered quartz in a fixed joint anti corrosion compound has no place between moving parts. In the threads of the barrel nut? Ok, I did.
Permatex uses magnesium silicate and powdered limestone (calcium carbonate)
Zerodefect
member
LOL. No man, just no. Do you lube M1's with cosmoline? Because the anti seize is just anti seize for storage, and momo protection. Anti seize is not a lubricant. It's not recommended by Glock for use as a lube, and good luck keeping it from staining your clothes. It's quite possibly the worst lube for a pistol you could use. It's too thick and sticky. A ground up metal goo.
I use ATF/STP/Grease mixed to ketchup thickness. Oil is too thin and drains away, grease is way too thick. So I made my own blend.
RA40
Member
Over the years I've read heard of many cocktail mixes. Didn't realize that anti-seize has been used. One day after having some burgers and fries one of the guy's was commenting how greasy the fries were. Next came, "Hey it would probably work as lube for the gun!" It digressed from there... I joked with the Mrs. to save the bacon fat because it would make a general purpose lube and when the gun got hot the smell of bacon would be the envy on the range. 
You can get grease in different viscosity / NLGI ratings:
https://www.thelubricantstore.com/laymans-guide-to-nlgi-grades
I have not been able to find NLGI ratings for most of the copper anti-seize compounds, but at least the Versachem I purchased seemed to be thicker than the Walmart Super Tech Extreme Pressure Multi-Duty Complex Hi-Temp grease (bearing grease) - which is NLGI #2
https://www.thelubricantstore.com/laymans-guide-to-nlgi-grades
I have not been able to find NLGI ratings for most of the copper anti-seize compounds, but at least the Versachem I purchased seemed to be thicker than the Walmart Super Tech Extreme Pressure Multi-Duty Complex Hi-Temp grease (bearing grease) - which is NLGI #2
Permatex owns the Versa-Chem brand, but the VersaChem copper anti-seize is a different formulation than the Permatex.
The VersaChem copper anti-seize is just copper and graphite in heavy petroleum grease.
A quote from VersaChem:
Anti-Seize is put on materials to make them easy to disassemble. It technically IS NOT a lubricant.
http://www.itwconsumer.com/userfiles/files/techdata-sheet/VC Tech Data/13111 TDS.pdf
The VersaChem copper anti-seize is just copper and graphite in heavy petroleum grease.
A quote from VersaChem:
Anti-Seize is put on materials to make them easy to disassemble. It technically IS NOT a lubricant.
http://www.itwconsumer.com/userfiles/files/techdata-sheet/VC Tech Data/13111 TDS.pdf
Yep.
Marketing and sales will call a product anything they like. If the antiseize has no abrasives in it then technically it could be a lubricant, note the other posters chart which doesn't state what the graded weight is. Likely they didn't bother to find out because the professional users don't consider it when doing things like changing the oil or assembly of a crankshaft. I've heard of a lot of things when building motors being used on bearings and cams for start up, anti seize isn't one of them.
Hmm, ground up quartz on your flat tappets? Hope you didn't pick that one.
As a further consideration, what is the viscosity and lubricity ratings of WD40? I don't think we've touched on that yet. Bluntly, another misused product that has no place in firearms maintenance. It was never intended for that purpose. As I said, people tinker and many use things "off label" simply because they can, not because they should. The more exotic the better for bragging rights.
Me, I've considered using crunchy peanut butter as it takes up the tolerances in my older guns. : )
Hmm, ground up quartz on your flat tappets? Hope you didn't pick that one.
As a further consideration, what is the viscosity and lubricity ratings of WD40? I don't think we've touched on that yet. Bluntly, another misused product that has no place in firearms maintenance. It was never intended for that purpose. As I said, people tinker and many use things "off label" simply because they can, not because they should. The more exotic the better for bragging rights.
Me, I've considered using crunchy peanut butter as it takes up the tolerances in my older guns. : )
Speedo66
Member
I don't recall in the Glock owner's manual being told to remove the anti-seize compound before firing. If it's harmful as a slide lubricant, why would Glock chose it when there are many better long term preservatives?
My Model 26 has been fired thousands of times with anti-seize on it, so far no discernible wear, problems in firing, loading, extraction, or apparent galling. Perhaps it will wear out, but I have a feeling not in my lifetime. Or maybe whatever is in it has helped the parts mate and smooth out. In any case, to each his own.
My Model 26 has been fired thousands of times with anti-seize on it, so far no discernible wear, problems in firing, loading, extraction, or apparent galling. Perhaps it will wear out, but I have a feeling not in my lifetime. Or maybe whatever is in it has helped the parts mate and smooth out. In any case, to each his own.
It does not state that it should be removed. In fact, Glock explicitly states that it should be allowed to remain in place until it wears off.
Glock does NOT, however state that it should be replaced once it has worn away, nor does Glock call it a preservative. As I mentioned earlier, my speculation is that it plays some sort of a break-in role.
Here is the exact quote from the 2015 Armorer's manual.
"The copper colored substance on the cam area of the interior of the slide is a high-temperature, factory applied lubricant for new pistols. It should be allowed to remain until it naturally wears away to assure long term lubrication of this area."
Here is the exact quote from the Owner's manual.
"Note that the copper colored lubricant found on portions of the slide of brand new GLOCK pistols should not be removed, as it will help to provide long-term lubrication of the slide."
1. Neither of these quotes states that the substance is a general purpose lubricant for all Glocks. One specifically states that it is "for new pistols".
2. In both quotes, the only recommendation is that it should not be removed and should be left in place until it wears off.
3. Neither quote states that it should be reapplied after it wears off nor (to my knowledge) do any official Glock materials even state what it is. It isn't logical to assume that Glock expects it to be reapplied but then never provides any information to allow owners to identify and acquire it. The 2015 Armorer's manual indicates (with a figure) that lubrication should be applied to the cam area of the pistol, however the recommendation for lubricant in the Armorer's manual is to use a "gun oil or cleaner lubricant preservative". The Owner's manual's only lubricant recommendation is for "quality gun oil".
4. Neither quote states that the anti-seize is a "preservative"--besides, the Glock finish is widely acclaimed to be virtually corrosion proof. For those who claim it's a preservative, I would ask them three questions: "Where did you get that information?", "A preservative against what?, and "If it's necessary to preserve new Glocks, why isn't it on all the metal surfaces?"
Edit: For what it's worth, I tend to think that a tiny bit of light grease on the slide cam is a good idea (that's my personal opinion--not a Glock recommendation) but it doesn't need to be anti-seize, and it certainly doesn't need to be any kind of product that contains abrasives. And it's really not necessary. Oil obviously works just fine.
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Riomouse911
Member
I have a 4013 that back in the early 1990's was my EDC gun for about 5 straight years. I have used a variety of different gun oils to lubricate it over the years and never had an issue with it galling, wearing excessively, jamming, failing to go into battery, or any other malfunction that I can recall. I don't lube it to death, but I certainly won't run it (or any other firearm) dry.
Like any gun; If you take reasonable care of it, it will take care of you. If you run it into the ground, you'll get exactly what you put (or don't put) into it.
Stay safe!
Like any gun; If you take reasonable care of it, it will take care of you. If you run it into the ground, you'll get exactly what you put (or don't put) into it.
Stay safe!
https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITL260-Grease-L260Np-jar-particles/dp/B00DK88VFK
I've used this zero particle grease for around 15 years now. I find it very useful for anything that doesn't take 5oz or grease per application, on the plus side you can also use it on electrical connections.
I've used this zero particle grease for around 15 years now. I find it very useful for anything that doesn't take 5oz or grease per application, on the plus side you can also use it on electrical connections.
everydefense
Member
My general philosophy at the end of cleaning a pistol has always been to spray a moderate amount of oil onto all metal parts, particularly moving parts like the slide, rails, etc. I sit those parts on a piece of newpaper and let any excess drip out while I pick up each one and rub with a oiled cotton rag to ensure that all metal surfaces are coated with a thin layer of oil for corrosion protection. Those are the two jobs of gun oil: that friction areas are lubricated and metal parts have corrosion protection.
For years I have always used RemOil since that's what my Dad always used, and it's readily available in any store. However, my wife's biggest gripe about gun cleaning is always the smell, so I bought some Hornady One Shot recently, so we'll see if the smell is reduced as much as expected/hoped...
For years I have always used RemOil since that's what my Dad always used, and it's readily available in any store. However, my wife's biggest gripe about gun cleaning is always the smell, so I bought some Hornady One Shot recently, so we'll see if the smell is reduced as much as expected/hoped...
lsudave
Member
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Yep, a good oil stays on the metal, and keeps it "oily" even after wiping it off.
I bought a couple pistols from CDISales on gunbroker, metal-framed DA/SA pistols (a CZ 75 and a CZ99). These were apparent Israeli surplus, and upon receiving them, things felt "gritty and gunky" inside, and the guns smelled like they had been soaked in used motor oil, and then stored longterm in an ashtray. I removed the grips (only plastic on them), field stripped them, and hosed everything out with non-chlorinated brake cleaner, a can apiece. I already owned another CZ 75 of the same vintage, and at this time, you could definitely feel the difference between the guns and individual parts. Even though my "older" CZ was "dry", the parts felt a lot smoother, and there was a much different sound to the metal-on-metal contact when reassembling and working the slide and action. So I then sprayed everything down with some Ballistol and left them disassembled in large ziploc bags in a warm place awhile. Came back later, rubbed and reassembled everything, the ballistol had left a slight sheen on the metal. I put a bit of oil in the various places (slide, barrel lug, etc), and now the guns felt and sounded the same.
My current oil project is using Kluber Summit FG 68 Elite oil, which is an alternate brand to Lubriplate FMO 350 AW. Industrial food-grade oil, apparently highly refined synthetic mineral oil with antiwear and anticorrosion additives, about the same viscosity as 20 weight oil. Thinner than motor oil, thicker than Ballistol, effective enough to lubricate and prevent rust and corrosion in a food-processing environment, safe enough that you could have incidental contact with the food and not have to recall that food. I bought a gallon online when I looked for lubriplate, and put some into an empty Ballistol can I had sitting around. I'm currently working it into the rotation of my collection, and I must say I'm very pleased so far... my latest gun project is vintage .32 acp pistols. These are old (all pre WW2, some old enough for WW1), blue steel guns with odd designs. Have a Savage 1907 that the barrel rotates during the action, things like that. I've found that this oil seems to work better than Ballistol on them; after cleaning and rubbing the parts down, the guns seem smoother, slicker, and quieter to work the actions. The Savage's barrel has a lug that rides in the slide, and as the slide moves, the barrel will rotate around some, following a slot in the slide. I can definitely tell the difference as I take the slide off, it's a lot slicker, even if the oil is no longer "wet". It's dry enough to not attract dust, but still coating the metal.
lysanderxiii
Member
With bare aluminum, this might be a problem. However, aluminum, as used in guns, is anodized. Anodizing leaves a layer of aluminum oxide a thousandths of an inch, or two, thick, and aluminum oxide is a very good insulator, as good as glass. This prevent the forming of an electrical path, so, no galvanic corrosion.
By the way, the black (or any other color) is just dye in the pores of the aluminum, just because the color has worn off, does not always mean the anodized layer has been compromised.
lysanderxiii
Member
This might be excessive . . .
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