I haven’t been able to do any recreational shooting for a while. I’m getting ready to get a 9mm carbine and wanted to get something different. I’ve always liked the M-1 Carbines but for whatever reason, I’ve never owned one. I’m not looking to collect - just to shoot. I’ve been looking at gun shops and Online and can’t find anything priced reasonable. Decent shape is going for well over $1,000 and much more in most cases. I looked at Fulton Armory because I know they make a nice reproduction with old parts and they are over $2,000 now. If I bought one of the new auto ordnance rifles are they known to be reliable? That’s my number one requirement when purchasing firearms. I’ve seen a few in the local gun stores and they look very nice - just like a vintage M-1. I’m kicking myself for not buying one of the old ones over the years. I could have had a nice Rockola for about $700 about 10 years ago but passed on it. At this point I’m not willing to pay big bucks for a USGI that I just plan on shooting quite a bit and I’m not interested in buying a beat up rifle either.
M-1 carbine…. Did I miss the boat?
- Thread starter KYamateur
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Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Depends on your view, some would say that spending alot of money on something would justify shooting it alot. But I get the latter part.
Those old American military rifles are just worth alot now. Tons of nostalgia, and customers of every age group want one.
Spending over 1k for a good quality rifle is the norm now however, so dont feel you're being gouged by any means. Thats just their going now, even Ruger Mini-14s are worth about that much.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
At todays rates, a decent pile of .30 Carbine ammo will cost more than the gun itself, and, whilst certainly possible, reloading the round isnt easy- case length must be exact since it headspaces on the mouth and they tend to stretch quite a bit on firing.
I do still have a brace of Carbines and they are super fun shooters, but I gotta admit to often considering sending them down the road and just buying more 9mm and .223 with the proceeds.....
If they weren't some of my absolute favorite guns, they would already be gone.
I do still have a brace of Carbines and they are super fun shooters, but I gotta admit to often considering sending them down the road and just buying more 9mm and .223 with the proceeds.....
If they weren't some of my absolute favorite guns, they would already be gone.
I would likely give a little over a grand for an old one but I don’t think I can touch one for under 2k in good shape. That’s why I’m intrigued by the AO new production rifles. I saw one locally between 800-900 bucks. I got in the AR craze several years ago and I’m kind of bored shooting them. Don’t get me wrong, I love ARs I just want to mix it up a little. I have a mini-14 and really enjoy it too. I tried a mini-30 and it wasn’t reliable with cheap ammo and I don’t really get into the AKs.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
The AOs have a mixed reputation for reliability, but their customer service is supposed to be good. I haven't shot one myself, but wasnt impressed by the fit and finish of the ones Ive handled at gunshows.
You may be able to find a Plainfield or 1st Gen Universal in your price range. Both these commercial carbines used a number of GI parts and were good enough that the CIA purchased them as foreign aid for the South Vietnamese. One of mine is a 4-digit Universal and it has been fantastic.
I wouldn't bother with a 2nd Gen Universal or any of the other vintage commercial guns, personally.
You may be able to find a Plainfield or 1st Gen Universal in your price range. Both these commercial carbines used a number of GI parts and were good enough that the CIA purchased them as foreign aid for the South Vietnamese. One of mine is a 4-digit Universal and it has been fantastic.
I wouldn't bother with a 2nd Gen Universal or any of the other vintage commercial guns, personally.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
There was an outfit calling themselves Inland Manufacturing a couple years ago selling rebranded AO guns with a little better wood and metal finish. Like the AOs they were reportedly a mixed bag function department and I dont know what their current status is- but they did look nice.
I kinda want to try one of the new Marcolmar CETME-L rifles. They fire .223 but have a very different shooting experience and awesome build quality.
I kinda want to try one of the new Marcolmar CETME-L rifles. They fire .223 but have a very different shooting experience and awesome build quality.
N555
Member
The boat left around 2016 to 2018.
But you never know, someone might find and send over a shipping container full of them.
Or those days may be no more.
But you never know, someone might find and send over a shipping container full of them.
Or those days may be no more.
AlexanderA
Member
I would not get an M1 Carbine if I just wanted something to shoot. They're overpriced, and getting ammunition is a problem.
Leave the Carbines to the collectors. But speaking as a collector, I have to say that they don't thrill me. At one point, when Carbines were running between $125 and $250, I was collecting them by manufacturer, and had nearly snagged the whole series. But then I realized that although the Carbines had been issued by the millions, this wasn't the iconic U.S. weapon of WW2 (the Garand was). So I sold them all, and I really don't regret doing so. The recent runup in values is inexplicable to me.
Leave the Carbines to the collectors. But speaking as a collector, I have to say that they don't thrill me. At one point, when Carbines were running between $125 and $250, I was collecting them by manufacturer, and had nearly snagged the whole series. But then I realized that although the Carbines had been issued by the millions, this wasn't the iconic U.S. weapon of WW2 (the Garand was). So I sold them all, and I really don't regret doing so. The recent runup in values is inexplicable to me.
Old Hobo
Member
I've got a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm. Marlin also made this in .45 Auto. These Marlin Camp Carbines (out of production) require some modifications, else they will self destruct over time or after many rounds of ammo. I modified mine and it is a dynamite "handy rifle" / truck rifle / "fun gun". I put a red dot scope on mine and it is a 2-liter ice-water bottle slayer extraordinaire. Ruger now has a 9mm carbine that a lot of folk really like. Now that I've made the modifications, I'm keeping the Marlin.
The 2-liter water bottles are great to keep in your freezer. Going to the range, they're targets. In the freezer, they provide thermal capacitance. Going on a picnic, throw one or two in your ice chest and that chest will stay cold for hours and hours; even over a day.
For fun, shoot the cheapest FMJ 9mm you can find. If you are going to use it as a home defense rifle, then you should only use certain brands of 9mm ammo. Why? Because most 9mm ammo gains little, if any, velocity in longer barrels.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/self-defense-ammo-for-pistol-caliber-carbines/
The 2-liter water bottles are great to keep in your freezer. Going to the range, they're targets. In the freezer, they provide thermal capacitance. Going on a picnic, throw one or two in your ice chest and that chest will stay cold for hours and hours; even over a day.
For fun, shoot the cheapest FMJ 9mm you can find. If you are going to use it as a home defense rifle, then you should only use certain brands of 9mm ammo. Why? Because most 9mm ammo gains little, if any, velocity in longer barrels.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/self-defense-ammo-for-pistol-caliber-carbines/
There’s plenty of ammo available for around $0.80 per round. That’s not outrageous, considering the much more common .308 Win is going for $0.70. (And, no - I don’t reload.)
The M1 Carbine has always had a soft spot in my heart (I’m a carbine fan in general). They are a bit pricey now, but is there really much difference between $1,000 and $1,200? I picked up a March 1944 National Postal Meter last month for $1,250. It went through a couple of Arsenal refurbs and spent some time in Italy, but it's a nice rifle. If I’m going to spend the money, to me the history is just as important as the form factor. YMMV.
The M1 Carbine has always had a soft spot in my heart (I’m a carbine fan in general). They are a bit pricey now, but is there really much difference between $1,000 and $1,200? I picked up a March 1944 National Postal Meter last month for $1,250. It went through a couple of Arsenal refurbs and spent some time in Italy, but it's a nice rifle. If I’m going to spend the money, to me the history is just as important as the form factor. YMMV.
Remington1911
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IMHO it depends on you. What you are forgetting that $700 rifle 10 years ago was a LOT of money, that is why you passed on it. It was just not worth it to you at the time. Now they are in the same boat costing more then you want to pay.
They are fantastic little rifles, great fun, and IMHO nothing will replace it, not a marlin camp series (check the prices on those now) not the plastic tacticool ruger, not the hipoint, they are all not carbines.
I can tell you this, they are only going to get more expensive, and it is not likely that they will be the first target of anti gun laws, they don't look scarry.
The ammo however is not cheap, unless you reload I doubt you will be shooting it all that much.
For the record I have the marlin, and two carbines, Winchester and IBM. They are fantastic and fun little rifles, but to tell the truth I shoot the Marlin much more. Why? Ammo, I do reload for it, but in this day and age the bullets I LIKE are getting harder and harder to find.
They are fantastic little rifles, great fun, and IMHO nothing will replace it, not a marlin camp series (check the prices on those now) not the plastic tacticool ruger, not the hipoint, they are all not carbines.
I can tell you this, they are only going to get more expensive, and it is not likely that they will be the first target of anti gun laws, they don't look scarry.
The ammo however is not cheap, unless you reload I doubt you will be shooting it all that much.
For the record I have the marlin, and two carbines, Winchester and IBM. They are fantastic and fun little rifles, but to tell the truth I shoot the Marlin much more. Why? Ammo, I do reload for it, but in this day and age the bullets I LIKE are getting harder and harder to find.
maxxhavoc
Member
I have both an Auto Ordinance and a GI. I put about 10 times the amount of ammo through the AO, mine at least has about the same reliability as the GI.
It IS more picky about mags. It likes the one that it came with a lot better than the Korean mags I use. I am confident if I wanted to fix them to use with the AO I could. It also runs fine with the USGI mag. The stock does not allow the use of the sling and oiler without modification. Hopefully they have fixed this.
The carbines are very fun to shoot, and well worth picking one up. As far as reloading, you do have to trim them regularly, but I find them easier to load than other rifle rounds.
It IS more picky about mags. It likes the one that it came with a lot better than the Korean mags I use. I am confident if I wanted to fix them to use with the AO I could. It also runs fine with the USGI mag. The stock does not allow the use of the sling and oiler without modification. Hopefully they have fixed this.
The carbines are very fun to shoot, and well worth picking one up. As far as reloading, you do have to trim them regularly, but I find them easier to load than other rifle rounds.
That's a question of what you want to pay more than how reasonable it may seem. All military carbines were made in WWII so price is going to be influenced by supply and demand.
Finding a 9mm alternative since those aren't 75 years out of production may be your best approach if you don't want to pay the price for milsurp or an Auto-Ordnance or Inland clone.
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WestKentucky
Member
There are considerably more affordable platforms which have more affordable ammo, but a man wants what he wants. Looking at the inflation we have seen over the years it looks like the carbine has stayed pretty consistent. Only thing to do is consider the cost/fun ratio and see if it makes sense. Once you do that it’s all about figuring out if your willing to spend the money on the toy, and how long you think you would enjoy it.
AlexanderA
Member
It's shocking to me how the prices of U.S. milsurps have escalated. 03A3's seem to be running between $1,200 and $1,500 in original military configuration. For somebody like me that used to pay $200-300 for them in the heyday, this is hard to fathom.
I recently managed to snag a Smith-Corona barreled action for $860 including shipping and tax. I already have all the other parts to restore it in my stash (stock, etc.), so once I assemble it, it will jump $500 in value. Still, if I was a collector just starting out, I would balk at this price level.
dranrab
Member
To answer the OPs question, yes, the boat was missed. Cheap guns, ammo and magazines are a thing of the past. Now it's a matter of how badly you want one.
trackskippy
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Like you, I got into them late and now kind of regret that. Back when they were dirt cheap, I was into the Garands and M1A's and couldnt be bothered at the time. Fast forward to about 5 years ago, and I had the bug and had 5 of them for a while there, all GI guns. Ive since got over the sickness and Im back down to 2.
Not trying to dissuade you here, but be prepared to fiddle with them and likely spend some more money on them, if you pick one up. All 5 of mine looked good outwardly when I got them, but needed a bit of work to get them somewhat reliable and shootable. Not really a big deal, but you should be aware of it.
I had to rebuild the bolts (you'll need the tool too if you do) and replaced the recoil springs on all 5, and that made a big difference in how they worked. Add to that, replacing the GI mags that came with the guns with new, Korean KCI mags, brought them up to 95-98%. I dont think youll ever see 100% with them.
Pretty much every USGI mag I have or have had have been trash and a big part of the function issues. The Korean mags, both the 15 and 30 rounders work great and are a great deal too. About $12-15 a mag.
You probably should pick up the wrench for the gas piston too. 4 of the 5 of mine had the staking on them broken too and were loose. Not really a big deal, and I actually prefer them loose so I can clean them, but the one thats still staked hasnt been an issue.
I had to reset and restake the rear sights on all 5 too. Seems whoever had them in the past didnt like that the main body of the sights werent centered when properly in place and knocked them out of the staking that was done at the arsenal. Its not a big deal, but you may have to do it. I actually had one rear sight fall off and land at my feet as I was shooting it the first time out.
You may have to work on the front sight a bit too if you want the range settings on the rear sight to match up with the zeros, if the front sight was replaced when they went back to the arsenal after the war. Most were. DCM has a page on their website to help you there. They actually have a bunch of good info on them there.
Ammo has always been somewhat expensive, even when the guns were cheap. I do reload for mine and that brings the prices down a good bit and its an easy round to reload for. Bullets are plentiful, fairly reasonably priced, and easily sourced, but brass isnt all that cheap and the most expensive part. Add to that, these guns seem to have a 360° vertical and horizontal ejection pattern, making at least some brass loss a sure thing. It is what it is I guess, but its annoying.
There still seems to be a fair amount of Korean GI surplus around but its a bit salty, and the commercial Privi Partisan seems to work and shoot well too, and isnt overly expensive. The Privi can also be had in a soft point.
Just be aware, once you.. start shooting them, youre not going to want to stop. Reloading is the way to go.
I had one of the Ruger PC Carbines for a little while and didnt like it at all, especially compared to the GI Carbines. Its heavy and clunky for what it is, and the blowback action is annoying. It wasnt all that accurate either. They seem to be going up in price too, and personally, Id spend the extra money for the GI Carbine.
Not trying to dissuade you here, but be prepared to fiddle with them and likely spend some more money on them, if you pick one up. All 5 of mine looked good outwardly when I got them, but needed a bit of work to get them somewhat reliable and shootable. Not really a big deal, but you should be aware of it.
I had to rebuild the bolts (you'll need the tool too if you do) and replaced the recoil springs on all 5, and that made a big difference in how they worked. Add to that, replacing the GI mags that came with the guns with new, Korean KCI mags, brought them up to 95-98%. I dont think youll ever see 100% with them.
Pretty much every USGI mag I have or have had have been trash and a big part of the function issues. The Korean mags, both the 15 and 30 rounders work great and are a great deal too. About $12-15 a mag.
You probably should pick up the wrench for the gas piston too. 4 of the 5 of mine had the staking on them broken too and were loose. Not really a big deal, and I actually prefer them loose so I can clean them, but the one thats still staked hasnt been an issue.
I had to reset and restake the rear sights on all 5 too. Seems whoever had them in the past didnt like that the main body of the sights werent centered when properly in place and knocked them out of the staking that was done at the arsenal. Its not a big deal, but you may have to do it. I actually had one rear sight fall off and land at my feet as I was shooting it the first time out.
You may have to work on the front sight a bit too if you want the range settings on the rear sight to match up with the zeros, if the front sight was replaced when they went back to the arsenal after the war. Most were. DCM has a page on their website to help you there. They actually have a bunch of good info on them there.
Ammo has always been somewhat expensive, even when the guns were cheap. I do reload for mine and that brings the prices down a good bit and its an easy round to reload for. Bullets are plentiful, fairly reasonably priced, and easily sourced, but brass isnt all that cheap and the most expensive part. Add to that, these guns seem to have a 360° vertical and horizontal ejection pattern, making at least some brass loss a sure thing. It is what it is I guess, but its annoying.
There still seems to be a fair amount of Korean GI surplus around but its a bit salty, and the commercial Privi Partisan seems to work and shoot well too, and isnt overly expensive. The Privi can also be had in a soft point.
Just be aware, once you.. start shooting them, youre not going to want to stop. Reloading is the way to go.
I had one of the Ruger PC Carbines for a little while and didnt like it at all, especially compared to the GI Carbines. Its heavy and clunky for what it is, and the blowback action is annoying. It wasnt all that accurate either. They seem to be going up in price too, and personally, Id spend the extra money for the GI Carbine.
A lot of it is timing - and where you look. I just bought an original 03A3 for $925...not $300, but not $1,200 either. (And I bet in the $300 days you were paying around $1 - maybe even $2 - for a gallon of gas.
)
In the 1950s, my brother got a brand-new M1 carbine from our home-nurse Auntie. She was a travelling home-nurse in the 1950s and got all kinds of things in lieu of payment from poor customers. Apparently, a patient's son worked in an armory and stole a brand-new one, along with hundreds of rounds of ammo and cleaning kits. I loved shooting that carbine, but my brother, while in a PA college in the 1950s hit a bus and, not having insurance, had to sell his guns to help pay the bill. I was in Jr. High school and couldn't afford to buy it from him, so it "went away".
1967 my dad got one from the DCM and a few other items. M1 Carbine...$20.00. 1911...$12.50, 3) O3 A3 $20.00 ea., Springfield M2 22... $20.00. If I could only go back in time and give him some more money
And while we're at it, have you seen the price of eggs
Thank you Uncle Joe
, I know it is not ALL his fault but I like blaming him anyway.
And while we're at it, have you seen the price of eggs
Thank you Uncle Joe
, I know it is not ALL his fault but I like blaming him anyway.
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I have had a few, beginning in the early sixties when dad and I would get them from the DCM (forerunner of CMP) for about twenty bucks. I have one I picked up at work a few years ago. It had been "sporterized" with plastic wood in the sling and oiler hole, A built up plastic wood pistol grip, and a recoil pad. I got it and a pile of ammo (including seven 20 round boxes of Federal soft points and a loose conglomeration of GI junk). I paid under $500.
Since then I found a Winchester stock, GI buttplate, and a slinh/oiler. The gun itself is all original Underwood. Health issues have kept me out of the shop so it and my other project guns are waiting on me to "pull the trigger" and either get busy or get rid.
I does shoot well.
One other issue is our latest legal hangup here in PPR, Pritzger's Progressive Republik, the assault weapons ban which prevents sale within the state of this kind of weapon. Mods, I'm not selling here, just outlining an issue some of us face and more will face in months and years to come.
M1 Carbines are fun. A buddy has a case, two full spam cans of ammo I can get for $400.
Since then I found a Winchester stock, GI buttplate, and a slinh/oiler. The gun itself is all original Underwood. Health issues have kept me out of the shop so it and my other project guns are waiting on me to "pull the trigger" and either get busy or get rid.
I does shoot well.
One other issue is our latest legal hangup here in PPR, Pritzger's Progressive Republik, the assault weapons ban which prevents sale within the state of this kind of weapon. Mods, I'm not selling here, just outlining an issue some of us face and more will face in months and years to come.
M1 Carbines are fun. A buddy has a case, two full spam cans of ammo I can get for $400.
N555
Member
I only got my first m1 carbine in 2016 with a few mags, a soft case and a box or 2 of ammo for $400. I had been seeing them for $600 as the common good price.
Surplus ammo comes in waves, about once a year.
Surplus ammo comes in waves, about once a year.
Remington1911
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I never really understood the reliability comments, I own two and have shot several. Mine never an issue that was not linked to age. Guess what folks these things are OLD. Springs wear and such. You can't daily drive a Model A and have it run like a 2022 ford.
You don't want to take the time to make them work leave them be. If you want to gripe about having to change springs, stay away from vintage firearms, there are plenty of plastic guns out there for you.
You don't want to take the time to make them work leave them be. If you want to gripe about having to change springs, stay away from vintage firearms, there are plenty of plastic guns out there for you.
trackskippy
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Thats just it, they are "old" and more than likely, a lot of them havent been maintained as they should have been over the years. It doesnt take a whole lot to get them back up and running if you have one that has problems either, but there is a good chance you may need to address some things.
Sitting for long periods doesnt help things either, and maybe all it takes is a good cleaning and lube. Just dont be too surprised or discouraged if it takes a bit more.
The fact that the mags are a bit fragile, and were basically a disposable item from the giddy-up doesn't help things either. They are also probably the biggest cause of reliability issues as well. If I was having problems, that would be the first thing I addressed.
Sitting for long periods doesnt help things either, and maybe all it takes is a good cleaning and lube. Just dont be too surprised or discouraged if it takes a bit more.
The fact that the mags are a bit fragile, and were basically a disposable item from the giddy-up doesn't help things either. They are also probably the biggest cause of reliability issues as well. If I was having problems, that would be the first thing I addressed.
