M&P Transition Model

[Maj Dad]

I picked up a nice 5" M&P off Gunbroker recently for ~$290. I wanted a nice shooter to replace the 4" Hvy Bbl my wife appropriated (after deciding her Rossi 720 44 kicked too much), so I just looked for what I thought was an average shooter, but with a 5" bbl like the one I had in the late 60s/early 70s (pure nostalgia ). When I got it, I posted the details & pictures on the DOB thread ( http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6359696&postcount=1864 ), and Radagast told me

You have a post war .38 Miltary & Police revolver manufactured between September 1945 and April 1948. It has the modern hammer block safety introduced during the war and also has the old "Long Action", which was noted for it's smoothness. The current "short action" replaced it in April 1948.
The finish appears to be original to me with some normal wear from use. Grips are correct for the period.
That's a nice gun. I wouldn't change it at all.

I've since read about the transition models, and that they are desirable from a collector viewpoint, and the 5" was not rare but scarce, hence also a bit more desirable. So, last night while my daughter was at the prom, I was sitting around the shop reloading/piddling and ran across my 2007 edition of Fjestad's Book of Gun Values. In thumbing through it, I looked up the Transition model, and Lo! In 80% condition, it was listed at $800-$900, IIRC!! There is very little blue wear, only at the muzzle, right side top of the frame, and a bit on the right front frame, all carry wear points. Other than that, it is extremely nice, with perfect internals/bore. The only drawback is that someone apparently refinished the stocks, which are numbered to the gun, and thought not horrible, are not "factory" condition.

Is this correct? I have no intentions of selling it, but am just floored that I finally may have gotten a really good deal. If so, check skies outside, there may be airborne porkers!

 

[Old Fuff]

I think that $800 to $900 for an 80% gun is way high! I am aware of one that was boxed and "like new" with papers and accessories that went to a collector at auction for just over $,1,000 - but it was an exception to the rule, as it is hard to find a perfect example of this particular variant. Guns in 80% condition are much more common.

Relatively few "serious" collectors are interested in them, or any other post-war K-frame hand ejectors (with some exceptions of course), but shooters - especially those that use the double-action mode lust after them. They have all of the important features that came on pre-war guns before the cost-cutting changes were introduced, plus a positive hammer block safety that allows them to be carried fully loaded.

I recently answered a post from a member that had found a revolver identical to the one you have, but in 90% condition and paid $400. I consider that to have been a fair price.

However because so few buyers know what the represent, it is not unusual in this era of polymer pistols to find them at the back of a shop's used guns display case for much less. The Old Fuff is always looking...

 

[XavierBreath]

Transitional M&Ps are desirable as Fuff says. Shooters love them. I agree that $350-400 is usually the price that one of these guns change hands for.

 

[Maj Dad]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the input. I agree they are desireable as shooters & that's why I am so tickled to have it. The only thing I intend to do is clean up the action, change out the trigger return spring and shoot it. I think I got a very nice piece at a good price, and I'll let my kids & my estate worry about dollar value...
Kindest regards,
George J.
(L.S.U.-N.O., '72)

 

[jad0110]

$800 to $900? I thought for a moment that perhaps you saw the values for Transitional N Frames, but I think they are actually valued even higher.

I too, have a Transitional M&P. Mine is a 6", in about 70% condition with original numbers matching diamond magnas. Mine was modified with a Deane W. King "cockeyed King" hammer and action job, making the action a bit smoother than your typical long action K Frame. The hammer is pretty cool, as King welded on the extension to one side; he did such a fine job that the hammer looks like it had originally been forged that way. It is a dream to shoot, with the silkiest action of any gun I own. However, I actually prefer the firmer trigger return of stock short action Smiths.

Paid $300 for this one.

7 yards, two hand hold, DA slow fire. 148 grain DEWC, 3.2 grn W231. I was actually having an average day, I think on a good day I could do this same group at 15 yards.

 

[Old Fuff]

I actually prefer the firmer trigger return of stock short action Smiths.

Switch in a current, stock rebound slide spring and you'll have what you want.

 

[Guillermo]

Old Fuff is slipping.

In the old days he would tell you to send it to him and he would not only install the spring and then test fire it...repeatedly...before he sent it back to you. The period would be a smiling devil like this

You feeling okay Fuffster?

 

[Old Fuff]

I think I must be slipping, its been months since I cheated some widder ladies out of whatever guns their late husbands left them...

Old age is catching up to me.

 

[Oro]

As has been mentioned, that book value is pulled out of Vapor - it's got no basis in reality. I have seen some ANIB ones do about $700. I think a real good indicator of the current market value of yours is what you paid at an open auction - others could have paid more had they thought it worth it. I'd say yours is a really nice shooter, and frankly if I had seen that at $290 I'd have snapped it up for fun. I do think the grips are both refinished and from a later model.

Below is a, I believe unfired, mint transitional model I have, c. 1947. The original grips are bagged away for safe-keeping, but they came with the gun. I might be able to get $600 for it were I willing to flog it at every possible venue and wait six months or more.

Something to keep in mind about barrel lengths is time period. It has changed quite a bit in over 100 years! 5" barrels were quite common pre-WWII, and lots of immediate post-war transition models came that way, too. The 5" barrel really didn't become "scarce" until the mid-50s and forward. 4", 5", and 6" transition models are easy to find relative to each other. Actually, I have had more trouble locating 4" ones than 5" ones. 2" - now that's scarce!

Relatively few "serious" collectors are interested in them

Very true. Someday they will be valued more highly, but even pre-war M&Ps get scant attention and near-mint examples are $300 ~ $350 routinely on GunBroker.

 

[Guillermo]

Old age is catching up to me

shoot over your shoulder as you run.

I know where you can get a six inch transitional M&P with a "cockeyed King" hammer for the price of a current, stock recoil spring.

 

[Radagast]

Oro, that is a lovely firearm. I wouldn't have your self control, it would be down at the range with me on a regular basis.

 

[jad0110]

Switch in a current, stock rebound slide spring and you'll have what you want.

Hmmm, I always figured they wouldn't be compatible. I'll have to do that sometime, thanks!

I know where you can get a six inch transitional M&P with a "cockeyed King" hammer for the price of a current, stock recoil spring.

Where, where?!

Oh ... yeah, no really I'm good . Crafty !

 

[Old Fuff]

I always figured they wouldn't be compatible. I'll have to do that sometime, thanks!

By "current," I met pre-MIM. They may work as well but I haven't tried any. The post-war springs made between 1945 and about 1990 work fine, but you may find one to be a little stiff. If so, trim one coil at a time until you get what you want.

Now I wouldn't want this to get around so don't tell anybody...

Because the hammer rotates in a longer arc you can also subsitute one of the later stock mainsprings, or even one of the slightly lighter aftermarket ones, for the spring that comes in the gun, and not give up any reliability. Note that none of this makes any non-reversable changes to the revolver, and do not decide you are going to make a good thing better by polishing the lockwork! Because of they're age a total disassembly, cleaning and relubrication is usually called for, but be sure the person that does it knows what they are doing, and has the right tools to do it.

One of my favorites, "Old Junker" has an action that is so smooth, so light, and is still totally reliable, that Colt Python owners that tried it have been known to go up to the top floor of a tall building and jump.

 

[roaddog28]

Hi,

I agree with others on value on the M&P revolvers. I have seen them as low as $250 to $400. I just bought one made in 1954 that shows very little use. Original grips, no holster wear and barely a turn line. I paid $330.00. I bought another one a little over a year ago on gun broker for $175. The condition of this revolver was a shooters grade. Although the long actions before 1947 are nice they don't bring any more money than the short action. The exceptions are a victory model with landyard ring that is in excellent condition. I have seen this revolver going for up to $500.

Bottom line. For a shooters grade M&P I would look for one in the $250 to $300 range.

Regards,
roaddog28

 

[Old Fuff]

Although the long actions before 1947 are nice they don't bring any more money than the short action.

Generally true, and especially so for the unpopular 5 and 6 inch barrel lengths. Fortunately very few potential buyers know, or for that matter care, about what they represent.

Their ignorence is indeed bliss...

 

[Maj Dad]

Beautiful pistol, Oro - I'd cough up $600 in a heartbeat, but then I'd have to shoot it, and then it would be a... shooter. I believe collectors should keep collectors' items, and if by chance a shooter happens upon one, it should be passed on to someone who appreciates it (and has the resources to do so). I'll always be a shooter, but I will always appreciate a beautiful piece.
Cheers,
George J.
(where'd you get the grips on it? I wouldn't mind having a pair like that...)

 

[Oro]

I wouldn't have your self control, it would be down at the range with me on a regular basis.

I should have been more clear - it appeared unfired when I bought it. I think I managed to not shoot it about 1 to 2 years before it did get shot on a range trip. I want to pick up a pre-war 4" or 5", or another transition 4" and then leave it and the original Victory without much more shooting on them.

[quote-Maj Dad](where'd you get the grips on it? I wouldn't mind having a pair like that...) [/quote]

I'll try to find the maker's web site. They have made those replica victory grips for some time. I can't recall at the moment but will google around for you tonight and find them.