M1 Garand brass life question

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I've read that the Garand action is particularly hard on brass, and one shouldn't reload a case more than 4 times for an M1, M1A, etc...

Is this still the case if you're running an adjustable gas plug? I got me a Schuster for my M1, and I have it dialed in to *barely* function the autoloading mechanism. I get a failure to feed maybe once every 10 rounds, which is perfect. I'm trying to baby the rifle as much as possible yet still shoot it.

Should I still stick to the "don't reload a case more than 4 times" rule?
 
I generally anneal after 3 reloads, then run that batch of brass until necks start splitting. That generally works out to about 8 - 10 reloads.

I've never have had any problems. Up until now that has been LC brass. HXP looks to be pretty similar to me.

Laphroaig
 
I have 6x reloads on several hundred cases with no signs of splitting yet. I don't know what an adjustable plug would have to do with brass life?
 
I don't know what an adjustable plug would have to do with brass life?

I've read that M1s and M1As have very quick operation for a semi auto rifle, and that the bolt is moving reward and extracting the spent case before it has "rebounded" from its full expansion after firing. This means the bolt is actually pulling or yanking on brass that isn't ready to come free yet, and this in turn results in a bit more stretch of the hot brass in the case head area.

I was wondering if by tuning the adjustable gas plug, I would be slowing the operation down enough that it might be gentler on brass.
 
A few years ago, I did an experiment with my M1A Standard rifle. I fired 10 rounds normally, in semi-auto mode, then I closed the gas port and fired 10 rounds single shot, manually operating the op-rod to extract the expended rounds. I then measured the headspace of the 20 fired brass with my RCBS Precision Mic, and found that all 20 rounds were exactly the same length at the datum point on the shoulder.

I had heard for years that the cases would be stretched by the fast cycling action of the M1A, but this wasn't the case with this particular rifle. I'd like to do the same experiment with my M1A Match rifle, but the gas port isn't movable on those rifles.

As for my Garands, all of them have long chambers, measuring +.008" with the Precision Mic. I size that brass back to +.006" and get pretty good case life out of it, but I don't count loadings like some people do. I inspect each and every case prior to prepping, and when I find one on the cusp of case head separation, it goes into the scrap barrel.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I tend to trash my 30-06 M1 cases after 6-7 reloads, but haven't had a case separation yet. Honesly, those that I toss are usually due to the case rims being really banged up. My reloads are probably a bit on the mild side though, and if you're loading up to military M1 specs. you probably will loose more earlier.
 
I'm still in the early stages of reloading for a Garand. I have loaded some HXP brass going 6 times. Each time I thoroughly inspect the brass, including probing the ID for possible head separation. I have not annealed any yet. I have about 50 Hornady 30-06 cases and only have 4 reloads on 24 of them (the rest still in the bag). I have noticed the Garand has dinged the rims of the HXP brass but none of the Hornady nor some R-P range pickups. On ejection the case hits a part of the OP rod and dings the rim. Confused me for a while but found the dinged rim reloads chamber and fire normally. I have read of the "twisting action of extraction" will wear brass quickly, but I have been unable to find any factual proof of this "rumor"(?)...

"Easy" or "Hard" on brass? No proof either way yet, but little to worry about as 30-06 brass is plentiful and cheap...
 
I usually get 10+ or so reloads with my M1's using commercial brass, as long as the case mouths dont get to tore up from impacts with hard surfaces. 6-8 reloads "maybe", using GI brass. GI brass is also a bit more of a PITA to deal with.

I usually trim every other loading or so, and start checking for "the ring of death" at around the 5th or 6th reload, and then each reload after.
 
I get about 6 reloads before the cases are so beat up - between the extraction and them bouncing off of concrete at the range - that it's not worth trying to take them any further.

Never found any evidence of case separation - I use the bent paperclip check each time.
 
I did the same experiment as reloaderfred for my M1A and realized the same. At least in my case, the M1A is pretty easy on brass.
 
This is not set rule as to how many times you can reload any cartridge. There area lot of variables at play. Two Garands won't even give you the same brass life. As a reloader, I've always document how many times a set of brass has been reloaded so that I can compile my own information. In other words, keep loading it until it shows signs that its no longer a good idea, and expect different results with other brass, guns, or loads.
 
Same science experiment as Nature Boy and Reloader Fred with the same results. My M1A isn't bad on the brass. Using Federal Gold Medal Match my average velocity 10 rounds was 2850 with the gas port open or closed, even no velocity change to speak of.

As to Garand loads? I run them five times and toss them. I have exceeded that but for me I just typically run 5x and trash the brass because I hate case neck splits or case head separations. Could likely get more mileage but just don't bother.

Ron
 
I have some Lake City brass that has 8-10 reloads on and is now starting to split necks with a couple cases separating about 3/8" from the rim. It is all going to be trashed now.
 
Also depends on brand of brass. I have some 10x fired HXP, and I get separation on Winchester commercial brass after 4x. This is in 30-06. No idea if 308 garands or brass are different.

Just have to do the experiment yourself. If the primer pockets loosen up or you get a ring you can feel on the inside, time to get more brass.

Sizing only 0.002" back doesn't help because my garands resize the brass when you chamber it. Measure a round with a headspace gauge, chamber it, and recheck.

HXP actually comes out of the can too long for 30-06, but it is in spec after you chamber it!

J.
 
Speaking only of HXP, the damage to the rims from my Garand is a real pain. Just did my first test loads and then 250 "production" reloads. I'd guess I spent about 1/4 of my total time in the whole process fixing the rims so they'd fit into the shellholder. About 20% of the cases had rims with bad dings.


And the bad news is, of course, that this rim damage will continue, so that each cycle I'll have this additional time-consuming element to my brass prep. I'm intrigued by comments that the rim damage may be less with commercial brass, but I bought enough HXP to be my "base" for reloading, and plan to use the cases 4-6 times, so sort of stuck for now.
 
You should see the bases on hxp after the tenth time through a garand.

LC and Winchester do a lot better at the base.

Mine don't mess with the shellholder though. That sounds annoying.

J.
 
FWIW, the brass from my first outing with my new to me Garand were ejecting to about 3:00-4:00 right and a lot of bent rims (HXP). I detail stripped and greased the gun as per my research and the same ammo, HXP, ejected to 1:00 to 2:00 with lighter rim dings. Hornady brass reloads seem to have no rim damage. I tend to reload to the lower to mid level....
 
My advice for reloading for Garands/M1as is to

1. Full length resize in a small base die

2. Trim cases

3. Clean primer pockets, ream to depth

4. Prime all cases by hand, verify that all primers are below the case head, and use the least sensitive primers you can find.

5. Use IMR4895/AA2495/H4895 powders.

6. Seat the bullets to magazine depth, no longer than 3.3” inches for the 30-06, no longer than 2.8 for the 308, shorter is fine.


For case life, I am lubricating my cartridges. Experienced shooters recommended to me that I only take a case four or five reloads, which is about 5 to 6 firings, and discard the cases. I would be shown their cases, I would take them home, section them, and find that their cases had severe case head stretch. I followed their advice until I met a Distinguished HM who was shooting lubricated cases in his M1a. He left the RCBS case lube on his cases, never tumbled or cleaned them, and he said he could take a set of brass all shooting season.

Cost is an important consideration to me. There are those to whom case life and case cost are irrelevant, but few people got to retire with footlockers of free military brass. I have noticed that new “bargain” 308 Win is priced $22.00 for twenty rounds, so brass has become even more expensive over the years. While I cannot speak for others, but for me, saving money is important: the cost of replacing cases after five firings is significant, especially if you are shooting to earn the Distinguished Rifleman’s Badge . Being able to take a set of brass 10 or even 20 times results in considerable cost savings over the alternative of tossing the brass after five firings.

Brass life in a bolt rifle can be orders of magnitude higher than what a gas gunner can expect. Bolt rifles are easy on brass, less scratches and dents, and the brass is not stretched on extraction because the bolt is opened after chamber pressure is zero. When bolt gunners get case head separations it is primarily due to setting the shoulder too far back on sizing. Cases are really meant to stretch once, on the average, 0.005”-0.006”. If cases stretch more than that depending on a number of variables, brass hardness being a primary factor, cases will break above the case head. Such as what this reloader experienced with 300 WSM rounds.


300WSMCaseHeadSeparation1.jpg

If a bolt gunner only pushes the shoulder back 0.003” his brass has the potential to last tens if not hundreds of reloading cycles.

M1’s, M1a’s, are much harder on brass than bolt rifles. Gas guns are very hard on brass and it is because they unlock while there is still pressure within the barrel. Col Chin calls this the residual blow back effect. This is deliberate and aids in the function of the mechanism. Residual blow back effect will get the case moving out of the chamber if case to chamber friction is low. Unlock must occur while pressures are below case sidewall rupture strength. This also has the effect of stretching the case. Hatcher explained, in Army Ordnance Magazine, March-April 1933, how cases stretch and why lubrication is essential in retarded blow back mechanisms:


Automatic Firearms, Mechanical Principles used in the various types, by J. S. Hatcher. Chief Smalls Arms Division Washington DC.

Retarded Blow-back Mechanism………………………..


There is one queer thing, however, that is common to almost all blow-back and retarded blow-back guns, and that is that there is a tendency to rupture the cartridges unless they are lubricated. This is because the moment the explosion occurs the thin front end of the cartridge case swells up from the internal pressure and tightly grips the walls of the chamber. Cartridge cases are made with a strong solid brass head a thick wall near the rear end, but the wall tapers in thickness until the front end is quiet thin so that it will expand under pressure of the explosion and seal the chamber against the escape of gas to the rear. When the gun is fired the thin front section expands as intended and tightly grips the walls of the chamber, while the thick rear portion does not expand enough to produce serious friction. The same pressure that operates to expand the walls of the case laterally, also pushes back with the force of fifty thousand pounds to the square inch on the head of the cartridge, and the whole cartridge being made of elastic brass stretches to the rear and , in effect, give the breech block a sharp blow with starts it backward. The front end of the cartridge being tightly held by the friction against the walls of the chamber, and the rear end being free to move back in this manner under the internal pressure, either one of two things will happen. In the first case, the breech block and the head of the cartridge may continue to move back, tearing the cartridge in two and leaving the front end tightly stuck in the chamber; or, if the breech block is sufficiently retarded so that it does not allow a very violent backward motion, the result may simply be that the breech block moves back a short distance and the jerk of the extractor on the cartridge case stops it, and the gun will not operate.

However this difficultly can be overcome entirely by lubricating the cartridges in some way. In the Schwarzlose machine gun there is a little pump installed in the mechanism which squirts a single drop of oil into the chamber each time the breech block goes back. In the Thompson Auto-rifle there are oil-soaked pads in the magazine which contains the cartridges. In the Pedersen semiautomatic rifle the lubrication is taken care of by coating the cartridges with a light film of wax.

Blish Principle….There is no doubt that this mechanism can be made to operate as described, provided the cartridge are lubricated, …. That this type of mechanism actually opens while there is still considerable pressure in the cartridge case is evident from the fact that the gun does not operate satisfactorily unless the cartridges are lubricated.

While neither the Garand or M1a is a retarded blowback action, cases are stretched in these mechanisms. Case life can be greatly extended by the practice of cartridge lubrication.


These images are of typical dry cases fired in a M1a. These are from a shooting bud's M1a and they are five times fired and they were fired as dry cases in a dry chamber. Scratches are from a bent paperclip inserted in the case mouth, I was trying to find the side with the deepest stretch ring.


DSCN1965editedCKfivetimesreloadedandrangepickup.jpg


These are cases fired in my M1a and fired as lubricated rounds. For the majority of firings these cases were sized in an RCBS small base die. I use RCBS water soluble case lube and I set up my 308 dies with a Wilson gage and a Barnett reamer cut gage. I size the cases to gage minimum or if the brass is to be fired in only one M1a, I push the shoulder back 0.003”. I either left the RCBS case lube on them and primed them that way, or I put on Johnson paste wax on the loaded cases with my fingers. I don’t like the feel of greasy cases and if I had time between matches I would wash the cases to remove the RCBS lube and then apply paste wax. If I did not have time I fired the cases just as they came out of the die, minus whatever lube that was lost in handling. I never had a primer dud.

I ran a number of experiments with various lubes; leaving thick coatings of grease is objectionable as grease particles are in the air after firing. I had 1000 rounds of CAVIM and I fired most of them in a FAL. FAL’s are very hard on brass and I experimented with stick wax. This is a tenuous grease used to lubricate saw teeth. I dropped lumps of stick wax in a bag with handfuls of CAVIM and shook vigorously. Both case and bullets were unevenly coated with globs of stick wax. When I fired this stuff it was as if a grease bomb went off: the mechanism and myself became coated in stick wax. My shooting glasses had to be frequently cleaned, my hands were greasy, my clothes were greasy, overall, it was messy. Later I spent hours wiping the cases to reduce the amount of stick wax.

The picture below are of sectioned cases, R stands for reloaded, R5 five times reloaded, etc, all of these cases the shoulder was set back about 0.003” and the cases fired in my M1a. I do not visually see any evidence of case wall thinning from those cases reloaded 5 times (6 times fired) , R18, or R22. As long as the case is not excessively stretched during firing or extraction, there is no reason for the sidewalls to thin. The FAL cases are from a Bud’s rifle. I think they were separating after 2 or 3 three firings, FAL’s are hard on brass.



DSCN1978CasesbesidesFNcases.jpg

DSCN1969CasesR5toR18.jpg

DSCN1973CasesR18toR22.jpg


DSCN1979Historyofreloads.jpg


At Camp Perry in cold weather I had bolt over rides with some of my Johnson paste waxed rounds. This ended when I polished the rounds. Pervious to that I shot the rounds with swirls and gobs of paste wax but evidentially that caused sluggish round rise in the magazine in cold weather. From then on I polished my rapid fire rounds and have never had a bolt close on an empty chamber even in rapid fires sequences in snow.

I have tried various lubes, paste wax takes the most time to apply but is the most satisfactory for handling. Paste wax dries hard, it is easy to wipe off dirt if you drop a round, and it is cheap. I am of the opinion that Johnson paste wax is similar to the coating that John Pedersen used for his 276 Pedersen ammunition.

http://www.google.com/patents/US1780566
Patented Nov. 4, 1930 PATENT OFFICE JOHN DOUGLAS PEDERSEN, OF SPRINGFIELD, MASSACHUSETTS 11,0 Drawing.

This invention relates to a process for coating cartridges and more particularly the affixing of a coating of hard wax to the metal case of a cartridge; and the object of the invention is to provide a method whereby cartridges may be coated with great uniformity with an extremely thin film, and also whereby a relatively large number of cartridges may be coated in a short time and at small cost.

In the preparation of cartridges having metal cases for storage and for use, it has been found desirable to apply to said metal case a relatively thin coating of some protective substance which will preserve said metal case for comparatively long periods of time against-deterioration, such as season cracking. In the present invention, the material for said coating has been so chosen as to perform the additional function of acting as a lubricant for the case of the cartridge, both for facilitating introduction into the chamber of the gun and the extraction thereof after firing. The most suitable wax which I have found for this purpose and which I at present prefer is ceresin, a refined product of ozokerite; but I wish it to be understood that other waxes having similar qualities may exist which might serve equally well. Some of the desirable features of ceresin are that it is hard and non-tacky at ordinary temperatures having a melting point somewhere between 140 and 176 Fahrenheit. It is smooth and glassy when hard and does not gather dirt or dust. However, when the ceresin on the cartridges is melted in the chamber of a gun, it becomes a lubricant.

Other lubricating waxes have been employed for coating cartridges, and the method most generally pursued for applying said coating to the cartridge case has been to prepare a heated bath of a solution of the wax in a suitable solvent, dip the cartridges therein so that a film of the solution will adhere thereto, and finally withdraw the cartridges to permit the solvent to evaporate from the coating film. This former process is comparatively slow and has been found lacking in several important respects.



My basic conclusion is that if the brass does not failure through case neck cracks, body splits, and you have not stretched them so they develop case head separations, you can load them until the primer pockets get too large , which is why I stopped reloading these cases.

I found that I needed to periodically ream the primer pockets: the pockets became shallow. Don’t know why unless the primer pocket collapses over time. As incidental contact with the primer can cause a slamfire or an out of battery slamfire, keeping the primer below the case head is a safety critical issue.


I can say I earned my Distinguished and won a regional gold with lubricated cases in the M1A, so my accuracy and function with lubricated cases was more than acceptable.

These targets are all with lubricated cases fired in 100 yard reduce course matches. The slow fire prone stage is 20 shots for record fired in a time limit of 20 minutes. All of these targets are 20 shot groups fired in competition. Accuracy for all was acceptable.


308 NM Garand 2013

201312-07M1Garand308192-04X_zps179e2dd3.jpg

M1Garand308Win2013serialnumberdeleted_zps8b31b4a5.jpg
200 yard prone 5 V target
IMG_5361100-15v308MatchGarand_zps3f75fb6b.jpg

30-06 NM Garand
2009
195-7XM1GarandSFProne.jpg
2011
TulaPrimers194-6XGarandMatch1.jpg
2012
M1GarandTarget201212-1.jpg
200 yards 5 V target

Reduced100-12V168Nosler470IMR4895CCI34DSCN5210_zps69148adf.jpg

Rack Grade Garand, 200 yards Match, prone with sling. I left the RCBS case lube on the cases as I did not have the time to remove it and apply Johnson paste wax.

200SFM1Garand1504XXX.jpg
 
I tend to trash my 30-06 M1 cases after 6-7 reloads, but haven't had a case separation yet. Honesly, those that I toss are usually due to the case rims being really banged up. My reloads are probably a bit on the mild side though, and if you're loading up to military M1 specs. you probably will loose more earlier.
Same exact situation with me. Rims get beat up before necks split or case head separation.
 
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