M14 competition prereqs

[ETCss Phil McCrackin]

Ok, I’m pretty new to Service Rifle competition and am s-l-o-w-l-y assembling the equipment required. I really like the big gun because I’m not real fond of the M16 series, (so you lurking AR gurus don’t have to remind me I can get a match ready Rock River for a lot cheaper!) So, does it make a big difference in accuracy when an M14 or M1A has a dual lugged receiver versus a single lug? And also, what are the most important features for an M14 to have for highpower competition?

 

[Quintin Likely]

The way I understand it, dual lugs distribute the recoil forces somehow to where it's easier on the bedding. Something about how the receiver "absorbs" most of the recoil forces that would disturb the bedding over the long run. One of the big bad wolf shooters will probably chime in eventually with better info.

As far as required gear, a good sling, like a Les Tam or a Turner (or a GI web sling), USGI magazines (I like having 5 personally, keeps me from having to reload mags between rapid strings), um, sight black or a sight smoker, I've seen guys use some kind of stick'em adhesive on the shooting glove when shooting the 14 or a Garand, and a very tight nut behind the buttplate with a good, solid position are things to have with the M1A.

 

[Sunray]

"...the most important features..." Trigger, sights and bedding. Then ammo. Not necessarily in that order though. They're all important.

 

[Sven]

Gerald "Hook" Boutin (AMU Hall of Fame) did tests on the different types of lugging systems and found that single (rear) lugged won out. That's what he told me anyhow. So I bought a SA rear-lugged from Champion's Choice. These days I'd lean toward an LRB, but that's for another thread.

For "features" you want your gas system unitized, receiver bedded, trigger at a crisp 4.5 pounds, Turner sling and some of the Jim Owens' books:

http://www.jarheadtop.com/books.html

Do you have a scope? Stand? Jacket? Good ammo?

Jim Owens can hook you up with a great deal on a Kowa scope and I recommend the Ray-Vin stand ( http://www.ray-vin.com ) and sight smoker. Ingenius, well crafted products made by the guy who answers the phone when you call - when his wife isn't helping.

-sven, has all the gear, needs to start waking up early for matches!

 

[ClarkEMyers]

1st - I'd look to buy from somebody moving to the mouse gun

Then if I decide to build I'd ask my smith how to go and take his advice. Here is part of one smith's answer to the lug question -

The rear lug increases the available bedding area, thus, your bedding job will last longer before it must be skim bedded or rebedded. It does not increase accuracy, but will help maintain your rifle's accuracy over a longer period of use.

Clint McKee

I'd be inclined to go with the conventional wisdom - GI for a fun gun and rear lug for a match rifle but that's not based on any tests I've made.

I might well compete with a service grade gun but I'd not much plan to build a service grade rifle into a match rifle slowly over time. YMMV.

 

[Steve Smith]

A unitized gas system is also a preferred accuracy addition, as well as a lapped rear sight. Don't forget a quality barrel.

Sven's rifle is a sweetheart. I'm not sure there is enough difference to turn around for between a properly built single lug and a properly built double lug to make a difference.

Mine was built by Clint Fowler and it's a double lug gun. Oh, and FYI, I bought mine in excellent shape for a substantial discount from a guy who was switching to a mouse gun.


BTW, you guys knew to take your shoes off before reading the name Hook Boutin, right?

 

[Freedomv]

I have personaly built and shot many M-1 Garands M-14/ M-1A and earned my distinguished badge with them. A single rear lug was what I found best.

A good stock is a must and I ended up using a McMillian for stability and durability. However I did not like the oversize stocks that seemed to be a selling point for some stock makers. The grip areas are too big and do not fit even my LARGE hands.

I avoided having too much equipment on the firing line. It is prudent to have extra magazines in case of a failure (which I never experienced) But I always went to the line with my number 1 and my number 2 magazines and I used them in that order.

I also wrote my basic 200, 300, 600 and 1000 yard sight
settings on a sticker or directly on the rifle stock for fast referrence.

An extra bolt, headspaced to your rifle is more important than Magazines. I have on several occasions removed and replace a bolt while on the firing line because of a broken extractor or firing pin. (a little practice at home helps)

It is very important to know your equipment and have faith in it so you can depend on it etc.

Good sites are a must for making windage and elevation correctings and a quality barrel with 4 groove 1 in 10 twist is the best for 168 gr match bullets and remember---CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN. I never had a bad experince while firing a clean bore. A good one piece cleaning rod with brushes and rag jag is a must plus a muzzle or bore guide.(a 12 ga. empty with primer pocket drilled out and plastic shortened works very well and cost nothing.)

Get a good score book to record range conditions, wind, sky, light direction etc and sight settings used so you can refer back to it when incountering like conditions. I may have a new Master Rifleman score book some where. They were the best. If you want I could do some digging and find one for you.(they are out of print for 15 years I think)

Thats just for starters as I recall some of what I thought was important.

It good to hear that someone still desires to shoot competition with the M-14.

Vern

 

[Steve Smith]

Hey guys, I want us to have a photo thread with our match M14s. I won't be back in the states for a week and a half anyway, so that can give you the time to get a photo set up if you are digital camera unfriendly.

 

[30Cal]

All written above is true in my experience. From what I've heard from those who build rifles for a living, the double lugged ones are maybe a little more tempermental and you have the extra aspect of occasionally torquing the action screws every know and then (you might need to consult one of the knuckledraggers you know about that).

I've got a rear-lugged M1A supermatch. 3300rds through it (a good 3 years worth of matches) and haven't had any problems with the bedding yet. Steel bedding is pretty rugged stuff and IMO, the rear lug is overkill unless you are getting paid to shoot a hundred rounds a day, six days a week. If I had to do it again, I'd have a rifle built on an LRB standard non-lugged receiver. You can spend the money you saved on a sling, coat and glove.

I shoot a walnut stock--it's a nice piece of wood--and haven't had problems with it. I sealed the heck out of it inside and out.

Getting an M14 to shoot for match purposes is more labor than components. You need a bedded action, fitted sights, unitized gas system, and a trigger job. The other stuff ("NM" spring guide, "NM" flash suppressor) is good, but small potatos. SA Inc's high end rifles are still somewhat mass produced and you can get a better custom built one for cheaper (lotsa used match M1As out there).

Unless you're an experienced highpower shooter or are extremely talented, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between one match barrel and another. You might want to same some $$$. A standard GI barrel will probably suit your needs for quite a while if the rest of the rifle is tightened up.

Ty

 

[Steve Smith]

In defense of my double lugged gun, the Marines were using them for years with great success and they won several national championships. I am not sure if anyone could ever prove that one is better than the other.

 

[Darkmind]

like a Les Tam or a Turner (or a GI web sling),

A smiple GI web sling will do you just fine for starting out. Put your money where its needed most first.

sight black or a sight smoker,

A zippo lighter or a cheap bic will do the same thing and save you money in the long run.


Plenty of mags is always a good thing.

The number one thing to know is, Know your rifle, Know your equipment, and know how to use it right. Practice practice and practice some more, Just when you think your doing good and getting better, Hit it harder and put more time into it.


I still to this day dont under stand why people spend hundereds and hundereds maybe even thousands of dollars on equipment.

Give me a M16 with an upper and a lower so loose that you can rattle it like change in a pocket, a Gi web sling with holes in it and fraying every where and i'll give you a 300 out of 300 on a USMC KD range.

 

[odysseus]

Sven...

Do you have anyone near where you are that does good work on an SA m1a? I would like a few items looked at and it's hard to find a smith around who knows them well and does them.
Thanks.

 

[BlindRat]

Give me a M16 with an upper and a lower so loose that you can rattle it like change in a pocket, a Gi web sling with holes in it and fraying every where and i'll give you a 300 out of 300 on a USMC KD range.

Darkmind,
I'm trying to figure out which of the USMC Hardguns you are. I've seen more than my share of MTU Shooters out here and I've never seen anyone clean the "old" qual course/Division Match Course.

BTW, you've just described MY web sling.

Steve,
Does your Fowler gun show weld discolorations up the receiver? I've seen a couple like that and wonder if he's gotten around that since.

 

[Steve Smith]

Blind Rat, I am in Iraq now but I'll be back in the US in approx 1 WEEK!!!! so when I am there I will look. IIRC it does have a discoloration. However, I also recall that Clint went though a few iterations of rear lug welds and this was in his final "perfected" method. The former versions were corrected if there were any problems.