M9 replaced what handguns?

[papajack]

so exactly what were all the sidearms replaced by the M9 in the 80's? google and wikipedia says the M9 (obviously) replaced the M1911 and all kinds of revolvers in use.

The only weapons i've found that were explicitly named are the M1911 and S&W 15 (used by the USAF). can anyone help me out?

 

[Onmilo]

1911A1
Rock Island General Officers pistol
M1969 General Officers pistol
S&W Model 15, 2" and 4" barrel versions
S&W Model 10, 2", 3", and 4" barrel versions
Colt Police Positive, 4" barrel version
Colt Detective Special, 2" and 3" barrel barrel versions

These are the ones from the Army it replaced.
Detective Specials were used by Criminal Investigation Division which was Army run at the time I was in service, the other revolvers by Military Police.
This C.I.D. has now become a civilian operation and they have gone to the Sig-Sauer Model 228, also known as the M10

I am sure other branches of service had additional handguns that were replaced.HTH

 

[papajack]

i guess there isn't a definitive answer because the revolvers were highly decentralized, i'm guessing? thanks though. I know the SEALs use sigs, but is the M9 always used when a handgun is needed in today's military?

 

[nalioth]

There is a big difference in 'general issue' weapons and those weapons that are used by special ops.

The SpecOps guys get what they want w/o regard to 'general issue'.

 

[Sixtigers]

My last two squadrons used Sigs, not M9s, when the pilots flew combat missions. That probably doesn't help much.

 

[Trebor]

I believe the Sig 228 in military service is the M11, not the M10.

I'm not sure what uses the M10 designation.

 

[Onmilo]

My bad, they were issued after I had left service.

 

[trackerup]

Seals use SIGS? I've only heard of them using the HK.

 

[inherentical]

Also, the USMC didn't fully transition over until much later than the '80s. My armory didn't start cycling out the 1911s until the mid-'90s.

 

[Arkady]

trackerup-- They use the P226. Sig sells a version of it on the civilian market: http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=7&productid=191

Also, the P228 is the M11, and is used by Army CID, as a friend just retired last year, and verified that for me. I have heard of air crews using the M11 over the M9 due to its smaller size, but I don't know many pilots.

 

[Ala Dan]

The Time Tested, And Battle Proven .45 ACP 1911-A1

In my way of thinking, replacing the time tested 1911-A1 .45 ACP (and other
issued handguns) with the Beretta M9 chambered for the 9m/m was certainly
a bad idea. Not that the Beretta is a BAD pistol; but why try to solve a
problem, that don't exist. Get the drift? Looks too me, like our government
just needed a new project too spend money on~!

 

[Deanimator]

1911A1
Rock Island General Officers pistol
M1969 General Officers pistol
S&W Model 15, 2" and 4" barrel versions
S&W Model 10, 2", 3", and 4" barrel versions
Colt Police Positive, 4" barrel version
Colt Detective Special, 2" and 3" barrel barrel versions

These are the ones from the Army it replaced.
Detective Specials were used by Criminal Investigation Division which was Army run at the time I was in service, the other revolvers by Military Police.
This C.I.D. has now become a civilian operation and they have gone to the Sig-Sauer Model 228, also known as the M10

I am sure other branches of service had additional handguns that were replaced.HTH

When I was in ROTC and on active duty in the '70s and '80s, female Army MPs were usually issued Ruger Police Service Sixes in .38 Special.

 

[cdrt]

Seals use SIGS? I've only heard of them using the HK.

In the 1990s, SEALs were assigned to the Special Boat Units that operated on the east and west coast. We had SIGs in the inventory. In the 1980s, we turned in our 1911s for Ruger revolvers (can you believe it?). We also had some S&W Model 10s. The SIGs replaced the revolvers.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

M9 replaced what handguns?

The M9 didn't replace any handguns. It replaced common sense.

 

[Mainsail]

For USAF cargo jet crews, the M9 replaced the S&W M56, which is the Model 15. For us, it sucked. Try to conceal an M9 in a shoulder holster under a flight suit; it was impossible and very uncomfortable.

 

[1911 guy]

I served in the early 1990's and we had virtually everything still in service. We qualified with the M9 since it was/is the "official" sidearm, but we were likely to be issued anything from a S&W model 10 to a 1911 to an M9. Once in a while, we'd be able to choose for watchstanding. For anything off station we were required to use the M9.

Same thing with rifles. Qualified with the M16, stood a few watches with an M14. Uncle Sams Yacht Club doesn't get rid of too much weaponry. Our RSL's had cutlasses in them, on one ship I was on!

I think the Navy had a policy of keeping what they had, replacing it with new when it was no longer serviceable. I don't know that for sure, I wasn't exactly high on the food chain nor a supply type.

 

[Sonic]

In my way of thinking, replacing the time tested 1911-A1 .45 ACP (and other issued handguns) with the Beretta M9 chambered for the 9m/m was certainly a bad idea. Not that the Beretta is a BAD pistol; but why try to solve a problem, that don't exist. Get the drift? Looks too me, like our government just needed a new project too spend money on~!

In fairness to U.S. military procurement, the M9 program, while it certainly had its fair share of critics, was not some bogus government project. There were two legitimate factors that led to the M9 program being initiated. First (if I correctly remember the articles I read about the M9 program back when it was initiated two plus decades ago), at the time the average M1911 pistol in U.S. military service was about 30 years old and had around at least a quarter of a million rounds through it, and so the M1911s were just plain worn out. Second, the U.S. is a member of NATO, and as such is subject to honoring the agreements made on small arms cartridge standardization within that organization, which means using 9mm as the pistol/sub-machinegun cartridge. So new pistols had to be purchased to replace the worn out M1911s, and with the NATO standardization requirement, these new pistols had to be chambered for the 9mm cartridge.

Now you can certainly argue about whether back in the mid-1980s NATO should have replaced the 9mm cartridge with something else, whether or not the Beretta 92 was the best pistol in the M9 competition, and of course whether the M9 program itself was run properly (and THR archives are filled with plenty of threads on these topics), but taking into account all the factors at the time, I believe that the adoption of a 9mm service pistol in the mid-1980s was not only legitimate, but also inevitable.

 

[NGIB]

We went to 9mm for one basic reason - NATO. Thank goodness the special ops folks can carry what they need to. No problem with the 9mm myself, it's just not the be all end all for every situation...