Magazine disconnect vs grip safety, which is dumber?.

[larryh1108]

My 2 cents is that the grip and magazine safeties have their place. Experienced gun owners who always follow the 4 golden rules may not see the need for either. However, like driving a car, you may be the best and most careful driver on the planet. Your demise can come from the other guy, who is an idiot. Drunk driving, texting, watching his dvd, on his cell phone or whatever. Just because someone owns a gun does not mean they are the brightest people on earth. The safeties aren't for the smart gun owners, they are for the foolish ones. I may never hurt someone else due to an AD or ND but that does not mean someone else can't do me or a loved one in from careless handling. I may not like seat belts but I wear them every day because "the other guy" might be an idiot. Don't assume everybody follows all the rules, all the time. That's not reality.

 

[Pizzagunner]

The dumbest thing in this thread was the original question. Magazine safeties are not my preference, but they have documented officer saves to their credit, and no actual lives cost due to the "single shot" capability hypothetical.

Grip safeties are a take it or leave it situation, a variant on the larger safety or no safety debate. The idea of having to have a proper holster to safe a Glock style pistol is not one I cotton to because sometimes I am not all rigged up to carry and maybe want to just be able to do a waistband carry to answer an unexpected knock at the door.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Not to mention the patent for the 1911 included a tab behind the trigger that prevented it from being pulled if a magazine was not in the gun. There was a slot in the mag catch for the tab that would line up when there was a mag inserted........i.e. a mag disconnect. Never went into production that way but JMB seemed to like them.

When the 1911 first came out pretty much everyone was used to revolvers where you dump all the ammo at once and this has caused people to have ND. Now its not really needed for most shooters.

 

[AZ_Rebel]

I hate to even bring this up.. but I'm going to.. people who say "pin the grip safety" about a 1911, really don't know how it works. a couple seconds on a grinder will eliminate the grip safety tab.

Actually, pinning the grip safety is much more desireable then removing the egagement arm. Pinning is reversable by simply removing the pin. A properly pinned grip safety eliminates the movement making a more solid grip.

I routinely pin the grip safeties on my 1911 type pistols as my hands and high grip do not reliably disengage the safety at all times.

As for magazine safeties... I have a box full of Browning Hi-Power mag safeties removed from customer guns. Most experienced people I know do not think they have much value - they are not a substitute for proper gun handling.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

If I Read and Recall Correctly,
there have been multiple weapons retention instances where
the gunner, knowing his opponent was wrestling the gun from him,
released the magazine on his magazine safety equipped pistol, and
regained the upper hand because the opponent was preoccupied
with a unfiring gun. How often that happens compared to incidents
of the gunner needing a round in the chamber, no mag, to fire
against an attacker, I dunno. I suppose it would balance out.

I dislike magazine safeties because they encourage failure to clear the
chamber after removing the magazine. They might occassionally save
the ignorant, but the ignorant really need to smarten up: remove the
magazine, clear the chamber, easy to learn. Encouraging bad gun
handling is counterproductive.

In the case I would most likely encounter, the mag safety issue would
be me on a mountaintop with broken down truck, my Ruger Mark II or
my .45 1911 for forage/defense, both no magazine safety so if clumsy
me dropped the magazine in the grass, I would still have a single shot.

Grip safety has never been a problem for me with the .45, in fact
a firm grip on a .45 before squeezing the trigger is a good idea.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

One of the European clones of the 1911 had a solid backstrap no grip safety (tactical equivalent of a 1911 with a pinned grip safety). It was apparently a successful design. Grip safety: can live with it/can live without it. (I see no point in altering a 1911 grip safety to where it moves but does not work. Pin it or leave it alone. Don't have it appear to be functional when it isn't.

 

[1911Tuner]

One of the European clones of the 1911 had a solid backstrap no grip safety (tactical equivalent of a 1911 with a pinned grip safety).

Two. The Ballester Molina and the Llama.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Tuner, the Llama might be a little confusing for a definitive answer since many, including the two IX-A's I've owned, did have a grips safety. The Ballester Molina: absolutely No grip safety..Most later models of the Llama did not have a grip safety...
Llama IX-A: Manufactured from 1955 to 1985. Identical to the Llama IX except for the addition of a grip safety. Later models had a ventilated rib. This model was the mainstay of Llama's American export market.

 

[REAPER4206969]

There is something that is simply plain, flat, wrong thinking about a 'safety' on the face of the trigger

They are drop safeties and they work perfectly. There is a reason why they are on most new pistols and some rifles.

 

[1911Tuner]

Tuner, the Llama might be a little confusing for a definitive answer since many, including the two IX-A's I've owned, did have a grips safety

Duly noted and thanks for the clarification. Since Llama pistols hold no interest for me, I wasn't even aware of the change.

So, a correction is in order.

Older Llama 1911 variants don't have grip safeties.

 

[Erik]

No question: the magazine disconnect.

 

[EddieNFL]

I really don't seem to hear to much complaining about the grip safety on 1911,s maybe because people just seem to put a blind eye to it.

Maybe because it's a passive safety.

The disadvantage of the grip safety is that it can fail to disengage in some circumstances -- notably when using a two-handed grip.

If fitted and gripped properly, it can't not work. There may be a few folks with different (for lack of a better term) hands, so the ergonomics of a 1911 probably aren't for them.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There may be a few folks with different (for lack of a better term) hands, so the ergonomics of a 1911 probably aren't for them.

The pad or "memory bump" on the base of the grip safety solves that. If you have an old, GI M1911, you can build up a bump with epoxy.

 

[EddieNFL]

The pad or "memory bump" on the base of the grip safety solves that. If you have an old, GI M1911, you can build up a bump with epoxy.

I've never had a problem. Years ago, after a similar debate, I spent about an hour trying to induce a failure by varying my grip. Unless I intentionally held the gun in such a way as to not touch the grip safety, it fired every time I drew.

 

[kwelz]

I don't like either. I have no use for either. But if I had to choose one or the other I would say the Magazine disconnect is far more dangerous.

 

[mstrat]

I think this entire thread illustrates the beauty of the free market. Don't like the grip safety? Buy a firearm without it. Don't like the magazine disconnect? Buy one without it.

I would hate to see either one legislated though, obviously.

 

[killchain]

The #2 reason why I haven't bought or will buy a Springfield handgun.

My hands are just too small for using that grip safety. Especially if I have to do anything like lock the slide back, or clear it, or anything.

 

[1911Tuner]

My hands are just too small for using that grip safety. Especially if I have to do anything like lock the slide back, or clear it, or anything.

I'm havin' a little trouble wrappin' my head around how the grip safety makes either of those operations more difficult.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Just in case it hasn't been said already in four pages , neither are dumb. Both have their places, on some guns, for some people. Buy a gun without one or either if you don't like them.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've never had a problem. Years ago, after a similar debate, I spent about an hour trying to induce a failure by varying my grip. Unless I intentionally held the gun in such a way as to not touch the grip safety, it fired every time I drew.

I don't have a problem, either. The standard M1911A1 works fine for me with Modern Pistol Technique (which is where the "problem" is.) But if someone does have a problem, a dab of epoxy will solve it.

 

[Ben86]

I don't particularly see the need for a grip safety or mag disconnect. That said I would take the grip safety over the mag disconnect, it's far less intrusive to the operation of the pistol.