Magnum powder in target rounds?

[rperyam]

I have a friend who has been reloading for about a year. He has 100 rounds of 357 Mag brass that he has CCI magnum primers already in them. He wants to try 3 grains of Bullseye with 148 grain wadcutters. He asked me if the magnum primers will cause a problem. I can't think of one, but I asked him to wait until I check here. Any problems with this?

 

[243winxb]

I use magnum primers all the time in 38 & 357 mag. No issues.

3 grains of Bullseye with 148 grain wadcutters.

I have not loaded this powder charge/ bullet in a 357 mag case. But should be ok.

 

[Thomasss]

Hornady recommends using a .38 Special load for that bullet in .357. Your friend has two problems:1) 3 grains of Bullseye is max for that bullet and bullseye is a fast burning powder, so why use a magnum primer?
Magnum primers are generally used for slow burning powders to get as complete burn in .357 loads.
2) If HBWC are being used, there is a dangerous chance the skirt will be ripped off the bullet and stay in the barrel. It could create an obstruction for the next round being fired.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Hornady recommends using a .38 Special load for that bullet in .357. Your friend has two problems:1) 3 grains of Bullseye is max for that bullet and bullseye is a fast burning powder, so why use a magnum primer?
Magnum primers are generally used for slow burning powders to get as complete burn in .357 loads.
2) If HBWC are being used, there is a dangerous chance the skirt will be ripped off the bullet and stay in the barrel. It could create an obstruction for the next round being fired.

^^This^^

Been there, done that, by seating a .358" Speer HBWC too deep in a .38S&W loaded with 2gr. of Bullseye.

Something to keep in mind. Yes, a magnum primer ought to be fine and Bullseye is a VERY forgiving powder - which at least partially explains its longevity - BUT! a too-low charge weight with a too-hot (high brisance) primer is how deflagration becomes detonation. Tell your friend to use published data and save the magnum-primed cases for a magnum powder and a bullet safe at magnum pressures. .38Spl brass just isn't that hard to find.

 

[2ndtimer]

Hornady recommends using a .38 Special load for that bullet in .357. Your friend has two problems:1) 3 grains of Bullseye is max for that bullet and bullseye is a fast burning powder, so why use a magnum primer?
Magnum primers are generally used for slow burning powders to get as complete burn in .357 loads.
2) If HBWC are being used, there is a dangerous chance the skirt will be ripped off the bullet and stay in the barrel. It could create an obstruction for the next round being fired.

Good point. If he is loading hardcast solid wadcutters, I believe he would be just fine. I don’t think magnum pistol primers make that much difference in mild loads, but those soft lead hollow base wadcutters could make a difference.

 

[Hanshi]

I see no problem and have done it many times.

 

[Tirod]

It's good he asked advice first.

It's better if he was following a Handloading books recipe for a load, and working up to 3 grains rather than jumping in with both feet. If I have learned anything here it's to go slow and follow in somebody else's footprints. Like, walking thru a minefield, a misstep is not a good thing.

 

[rperyam]

The bullets are DEWCBB from Summers Bullets. He has plenty of unprimed brass that he can use and I'll make sure he starts low and works up. He normally uses 2.8 grains of Bullseye in 38 Special cases and figured he go up slightly to 3.0 in the longer case. Better to get information before assuming when it comes to reloading. Thank you for your advice.

 

[bullseye308]

My only worry would be where the powder is in the case when he sets one off. Powder foreword could lead to a detonation, but powder towards the base should(probably) be fine. I do believe someone wiser than me did a test of that or similar not too awful long ago. I’d probably set those cases aside for now and label them properly till he is sure of how to use them.

 

[243winxb]

Walkalong has posted data of some powders that are position sensitive. Google it.

Bullseye powder is not one of them. I have shot many 38 specials with Bullseye powder, mag primer, 2.7 grs148 lwc is a standard loading.

A 163gr home cast lswc and 3.3 grs Bullseye is a plinking load i have used. 38 spec.

A double powder charge in a 357 mag case is something to watch out for when using small amounts of Bullseye Powder.

 

[Riomouse911]

I’ve loaded hundreds and hundreds of DEWC over 3.0 bullseye in .38 Spl cases, it’s not close to a max load (4.1 should get a 141 DEWC to about 970 fps according to Lyman 47th.). Lee has bullseye at 2.6 to 2.8 for a 148 gr Wadcutter, but these are the classic low-powered target loads.

3.0 gr BE in a .357 case? I’d actually be a bit wary of sticking a bullet in any barrel longer than 4”.

In .357 cases, a 141 gr DEWC shows a min of 4.8 gr BE for 730 fps to a max of 6.8 gr BE for 1157 fps in the Lyman 47th. Lee has a 148 gr Wadcutter starting at 5.2 gr BE for 1354 fps to 5.7 gr BE for a blistering 1475 fps. (Different bullets and test barrels are giving these varied speeds, your velocities will vary depending on your set up.)

Personally I wouldn’t start below 4.0 gr BE with a 148 gr DEWC in a .357 case.

Stay safe.

 

[brewer12345]

With a dewc, I agree on starting with more powder. You have a lot of room to move up the charge with a solid wadcutter as there is no skirt to tear off.

 

[forrest r]

Interesting!!!

So far you have you'll blow the skirts off while using too lite of a load that will stick the bullet if the load survives pre-detonation.

Apparently it's slim pickins when it comes to hands on experience with your 3.0gr/wc/357mag load.

Personally I couldn't even begin to count how many reloads I've shot over the decades using 141gr wc's/148gr wc's/148gr hbwcs and 3.0gr of bullseye in 357mag cases with pretty much every sp primer made in the usa along with s&b and wolf primers.

I wish I had a $1 for every time I've read about how a "mag" primer affects the pressure of a load. In reality it's the % of the powder that burns that's affects the standard VS mag primer. Most 38spl/357mag bullseye loads are 95%+ burn, a mag primer has an extremely small affect on these loads. Now a 75%/80% load, aaahhhh-yaaaa.

148gr wc 38spl case 2.7gr bullseye 14,000psi+
148gr wc 357mag case 2.8gr bullseye 10,000psi +/-

A link to a free downloadable alliant manual (2005). I consider this the last year of the "great" alliant manuals they used to put out. In 2008 they started the new format that doesn't show pressures and only uses their own bullets (speer). Page # 42 of this 2005 manual has the load your looking for.
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Alliant_2005.pdf

Lyman 44th manual has their 141gr wc using 3.0gr of bullseye (page #117). This is where I got my data to use back in the 1980's to make 357mag/wc loads.
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading Manuals/Lyman Reloading Handbook --- 44th Edition --- 1967.pdf