BrennanKG
Member
All I can say is the Masada now comprises 1/3 of my holy grail 223 trinity: XCR, Masada, and LT/Magpul AR15.
I just hope I'll be able to own one!
B.
I just hope I'll be able to own one!
B.
Magpul Rifle
- Thread starter Number 6
- Start date
- Status
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
The other thing to remeber that the problem with bolts breaking in the M4 is that the stress loading is about 50% more than the bolt was designed for to begin with. With a properly designed gas piston, or a 20" direct impingement system, you don't have that problem to begin with.
Langenator
Member
Me, I just hate cleaning the damn star chamber. The analogous area on the AK is much easier to get clean.
And Brennan, why isn't the SCAR-L on that list?
I think, between the SCAR and Masada, whichever comes out with the necessary extra parts to fire 6.5 Grendel will end up in my safe.
And Brennan, why isn't the SCAR-L on that list?
I think, between the SCAR and Masada, whichever comes out with the necessary extra parts to fire 6.5 Grendel will end up in my safe.
Chris Rhines
Member
Why do you clean the star chamber?
- Chris
- Chris
Zak Smith
Member
Langenator,
To fire 6.5 Grendel, I think the only proprietary part you'd have to wait for are the 7.62x39 bolts. You ought to be able to have the gas system parts mounted on any 6.5 barrel. The only remaining question is the size of the ejection port.
Also note that with this quick-removable barrel system, cleaning that star chamber is going to be a lot easier. You could just dunk the whole rear of the barrel in solvent if you wanted to.
-z
To fire 6.5 Grendel, I think the only proprietary part you'd have to wait for are the 7.62x39 bolts. You ought to be able to have the gas system parts mounted on any 6.5 barrel. The only remaining question is the size of the ejection port.
Also note that with this quick-removable barrel system, cleaning that star chamber is going to be a lot easier. You could just dunk the whole rear of the barrel in solvent if you wanted to.
-z
Langenator
Member
You clean the star chamber so the armorer will let you turn your rifle in to the arms room and you can go home.
And if the ejection port can handle 7.62x39, I can't see why 6.5G would be any issue. Gas system might take a little tuning, since 6.5G runs at lower pressure than 5.56/.223.
And if the ejection port can handle 7.62x39, I can't see why 6.5G would be any issue. Gas system might take a little tuning, since 6.5G runs at lower pressure than 5.56/.223.
Eleven Mike
Member
Why not build a bipod into the forearm?
BrennanKG
Member
Langenator,
I am not sure the SCAR-L (or H) will be available for serfs. I've heard a lot of speculation, but little else.
If it is made available, I'd want one, but it still might not make it onto my top three list. There are MANY great rifles out there I'd like to own but probably wouldn't due to other, slightly more appealing options. The POF product line is like that for me. They make great rifles, there are simply others I want more.
B.
I am not sure the SCAR-L (or H) will be available for serfs. I've heard a lot of speculation, but little else.
If it is made available, I'd want one, but it still might not make it onto my top three list. There are MANY great rifles out there I'd like to own but probably wouldn't due to other, slightly more appealing options. The POF product line is like that for me. They make great rifles, there are simply others I want more.
B.
Zak Smith
Member
My take on bipods on fighting rifles/carbines: not appropriate for anything other than a dedicated long-range rifle, either in the SPR, M14, or bolt format.
Langenator,
The stock gas port size is used on barrels (ie, whatever it comes with) and Magpul has several types of adjustable gas systems, so I'm sure it won't be a problem to accomodate cartridges with different pressure curves than 223.
Langenator,
The stock gas port size is used on barrels (ie, whatever it comes with) and Magpul has several types of adjustable gas systems, so I'm sure it won't be a problem to accomodate cartridges with different pressure curves than 223.
People are doing 6.5 Grendel builds with standard 5.56 upper receivers. Only change is the 7.62x39 bolt with 6.5 Grendel barrel.
Alexander Arms makes their ejection port a bit bigger but it apparently isn't necessary.
The Masada should be an easy swap to 6.5 Grendel - just bolt and barrel...and since it uses standard AR barrels you could do the swap right now with a barrel kit from CSS or Saturn.
Alexander Arms makes their ejection port a bit bigger but it apparently isn't necessary.
The Masada should be an easy swap to 6.5 Grendel - just bolt and barrel...and since it uses standard AR barrels you could do the swap right now with a barrel kit from CSS or Saturn.
jacketch
Member
Remember though that the stress that has been removed from the bolt has been transfered to the gas block. Both reliability and accuracy can be affected by gas block issues in gas/piston guns and that's why they are usually pressed and pinned. I can't tell for sure but it looks like the Masada has a bolt clamp gas block which I hope is well designed for the job.
Zak Smith
Member
I think we'll see a pinned gas block.
jacketch
Member
If you check you will find that Picatinny rails, forearms, folding stocks and charging handles are now available for the AR180B. The trigger group can be replaced by most AR15 FCG parts and they now have a threaded barrel for the FS of your choosing. Even though they are the unsung gas/piston AR, they are a fine gun and they also cost about 1/2 of what the Masada is projected at.
Zak Smith
Member
No doubt a number of large manufacturers are kicking themselves.
Evil Monkey
member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,486
OK........
That's dumb......One uses M16 mags and the other uses Bulgarian mags......both are 5.56mm.
That's dumb......One uses M16 mags and the other uses Bulgarian mags......both are 5.56mm.
Glockfan.45
member
Anyone else notice all these companies are putting out new EBRs in 08, do they know something we dont? Looks like an interesting design but I dont see myself selling an AR for one. Noticed the 18" barrel has a different stock than the shorties. I would prefer to see it equiped with the same stock as the other models. Why no 16" barrel for those of us in states where NFA goodies are a no-no?
Stiletto Null
Member
Probably just catering to increased demand for proper battle rifle type rifles.
And didn't Magpul say they were releasing Masadas with both STANAG magwells and AK-style wells, to accept both general cartridge families?
And didn't Magpul say they were releasing Masadas with both STANAG magwells and AK-style wells, to accept both general cartridge families?
Zak Smith
Member
Evil Monkey,
The military SPR-V program required a weapon that would fire both 7.62x39 and 5.56 with minimal changes. That's where the SR-47 and RAV02 came from. While that project was ditched, the concept of an assault rifle that can be easily reconfigured to fire 7.62x39, 5.56, 5.45, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc has caught on.
It's obvious you can't make AK magazines work with a regular M16 magwell. The intent of the two Masada lowers is to have one for M16-style magazines, and the other for AK47-style magazines. That there are 5.56 AK magazines which will work with the AK lower is just a bonus.
There are some arguments for constat-curve magazines and reliability (which I am not fully versed in) which may make this a good choice.
Glockfan,
I think the timing is more due to historical events that companies have responded to, namely the military SCAR solicitation, and various forces re-evaluating their fighting rifle.
The stock is interchangable. If you field-strip the lower from the upper, you just need to remove like one more pin to replace the stock assembly with one or the other.
I don't know this 100%, but my guess would be that they demoed the listed configurations because they match the barrel lengths issued as US Military rifles, e.g. the 10.3" CQBR, the 14.5" M4, and the 18" SPR. Likewise, I am sure they will offer 16" barrels. I bet once these are out and available, we'll be able to get basically any barrel configuration we want, since you can take any AR-15 barrel and add the extra pieces to it easily.
The Magpul guys aren't dummies.
I, for one, can't wait.
The military SPR-V program required a weapon that would fire both 7.62x39 and 5.56 with minimal changes. That's where the SR-47 and RAV02 came from. While that project was ditched, the concept of an assault rifle that can be easily reconfigured to fire 7.62x39, 5.56, 5.45, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc has caught on.
It's obvious you can't make AK magazines work with a regular M16 magwell. The intent of the two Masada lowers is to have one for M16-style magazines, and the other for AK47-style magazines. That there are 5.56 AK magazines which will work with the AK lower is just a bonus.
There are some arguments for constat-curve magazines and reliability (which I am not fully versed in) which may make this a good choice.
Glockfan,
I think the timing is more due to historical events that companies have responded to, namely the military SCAR solicitation, and various forces re-evaluating their fighting rifle.
The stock is interchangable. If you field-strip the lower from the upper, you just need to remove like one more pin to replace the stock assembly with one or the other.
I don't know this 100%, but my guess would be that they demoed the listed configurations because they match the barrel lengths issued as US Military rifles, e.g. the 10.3" CQBR, the 14.5" M4, and the 18" SPR. Likewise, I am sure they will offer 16" barrels. I bet once these are out and available, we'll be able to get basically any barrel configuration we want, since you can take any AR-15 barrel and add the extra pieces to it easily.
The Magpul guys aren't dummies.
I, for one, can't wait.
stiletto raggio
Member
Okay, I had these plans to buy a bunch of different guns when I got back from Iraq, but I think I may end up with several of these. Sig better come out with an "original furniture" version of the 556 if it even wants a "novelty" look. G36 clone? No way.
The way it looks now, I will have room for a US made AUG copy, a couple Tromix-type Saiga 12s and then just Massadas.
For everyone griping about how this isn't an AR-15, give it up. This gun doesn't need after-market accessories; it is made by the after-market masters.
The way it looks now, I will have room for a US made AUG copy, a couple Tromix-type Saiga 12s and then just Massadas.
For everyone griping about how this isn't an AR-15, give it up. This gun doesn't need after-market accessories; it is made by the after-market masters.
Feanaro
Member
The tech notes say those are only some possible configurations. Keep in mind that the Masada isn't finished yet.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
When I checked a month ago, AR180B with threaded muzzle was not yet available. Has that changed since?
Foxtrot427
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Messages
- 512
Ill take mine in black 16in bbl pleeaassee
Sam Adams
Member
Bumping for more comments. I just saw an article about this rifle in the G&A Annual. I'm impressed with the quick barrel and caliber change capability. I look forward to more news on this rifle, which is apparently going to be available in the 1st Quarter of '08. I'd LOVE to see how it performs with the 6.5 Grendel round.
They seem to work pretty well, I just can't get over that price.
Magpul Test May 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SlWXdoT5QM
Magpul Masada being fired in a rest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e_lWZzO8rM
Magpul Masada full auto function test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTnlNyhuO_U
If the price ever drops then I'll probably buy one, until then I'll have to pass. But at least they're doing their best to come out with new battle carbine designs instead of being the one millionth company to come out with a "new" AR-15. It doesn't seem like most gun companies are doing that. With the exception of the polymer pistols that came out in the late 1970's and early 80's it doesn't seem like there's been much progress in firearms technology for the last several decades.
They threw in some good design features as well.
If some of the various 6mm cartridges (6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 6x45, 6mm OPT etc) really take off and if there's ever cheap ammo for them I can really see that really being a match made in heaven, at least as far as I'm concerned. I understand that it's been (or is being) chambered in 6.8 SPC, but there's still no really cheap ammo in that caliber.
Masada in 6.8 SPC
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=975
6mm as a military caliber.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/6mm_military_cartridge.htm
6mm OPT
http://www.65grendel.com/65g_6mmopt.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Magpul isn't a slouch when it comes to their P-Mag either.
Magpul P-Mag and other polymer mags vs. a Chevy truck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCFXcOOb4jc
P-Mag function test in an AR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfxnNLN2fGo
P-Mag drop test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-GgnuUvDp8
P-Mag test (dry)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxT-lsI4Z3U
Magpul Test May 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SlWXdoT5QM
Magpul Masada being fired in a rest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e_lWZzO8rM
Magpul Masada full auto function test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTnlNyhuO_U
If the price ever drops then I'll probably buy one, until then I'll have to pass. But at least they're doing their best to come out with new battle carbine designs instead of being the one millionth company to come out with a "new" AR-15. It doesn't seem like most gun companies are doing that. With the exception of the polymer pistols that came out in the late 1970's and early 80's it doesn't seem like there's been much progress in firearms technology for the last several decades.
They threw in some good design features as well.
If some of the various 6mm cartridges (6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 6x45, 6mm OPT etc) really take off and if there's ever cheap ammo for them I can really see that really being a match made in heaven, at least as far as I'm concerned. I understand that it's been (or is being) chambered in 6.8 SPC, but there's still no really cheap ammo in that caliber.
Masada in 6.8 SPC
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=975
6mm as a military caliber.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/6mm_military_cartridge.htm
6mm OPT
http://www.65grendel.com/65g_6mmopt.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Magpul isn't a slouch when it comes to their P-Mag either.
Magpul P-Mag and other polymer mags vs. a Chevy truck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCFXcOOb4jc
P-Mag function test in an AR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfxnNLN2fGo
P-Mag drop test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-GgnuUvDp8
P-Mag test (dry)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxT-lsI4Z3U
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked