Zak Smith
Member
............... Larger version of above photo.
............... Larger version of above photo.
............... Larger version of above photo.
(This is my registered SBR.)
Magpul UBR Upgrade Photos
- Thread starter Zak Smith
- Start date
- Status
............... Larger version of above photo.
............... Larger version of above photo.
............... Larger version of above photo.
(This is my registered SBR.)
gunman42782
Member
Way cool!
Dionysusigma
Member
How's the cheek weld? 
OP
OP
Zak Smith
Member
Same as the M93, which I've been using for 4 years.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
And it's STILL not on Magpuls webpage?, and it's STILL not for sale anywhere?
Any real info on those questions?
Magpul promised discounts and brotherly love for those of us that bought into their M93 early on.
I'm still waiting 2 years later. ( 2 years after being told the UBR would be here "any day")
It looks great. I am anxiously, but not so patiently, waiting for them.
Any real info on those questions?
Magpul promised discounts and brotherly love for those of us that bought into their M93 early on.
I'm still waiting 2 years later. ( 2 years after being told the UBR would be here "any day")
It looks great. I am anxiously, but not so patiently, waiting for them.
Dionysusigma
Member
What are its advantages over a standard M4 stock (aside from aesthetics) 
? Price?
? Price?
OP
OP
Zak Smith
Member
I believe there was a preproduction batch of UBRs for sale in December. I know the Magpul guys have been extremely busy developing a bunch of products, including the UBR and the Masada. Most people in the industry are slammed in the month prior to SHOT. Anyway, I don't have any special information.
I know some people are angry or frustrated with Magpul for having a series of M93 design changes, and product delays on the Pmags and the UBR. The way I see it, we have a company very close to shooters, with an owner and designers who are pretty obsessed with perfection and product improvement. I, for one, would rather have more companies like Magpul, instead of those who design poor products, have them manufactured in China with marginal quality, and then try to pass them off on shooters as the next greatest thing-- that's more a marketing exercise than making good products that solve problems.
Dionysusigma,
The M93 and now the UBR have the main advantage of a constant cheek weld regardless of stock position (the buttstock assembly slides on the bottom of the improved "tube"). While the M93 was a revolutionary design, and much sturdier than the M4 stock, the UBR makes the M93 look like it was designed by a 3rd grader and put together with tinker toys.
-z
I know some people are angry or frustrated with Magpul for having a series of M93 design changes, and product delays on the Pmags and the UBR. The way I see it, we have a company very close to shooters, with an owner and designers who are pretty obsessed with perfection and product improvement. I, for one, would rather have more companies like Magpul, instead of those who design poor products, have them manufactured in China with marginal quality, and then try to pass them off on shooters as the next greatest thing-- that's more a marketing exercise than making good products that solve problems.
Dionysusigma,
The M93 and now the UBR have the main advantage of a constant cheek weld regardless of stock position (the buttstock assembly slides on the bottom of the improved "tube"). While the M93 was a revolutionary design, and much sturdier than the M4 stock, the UBR makes the M93 look like it was designed by a 3rd grader and put together with tinker toys.
-z
Wes Janson
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2006
- Messages
- 1,962
How sturdy is it compared to a standard M4 stock? Is any play to speak of between the buttstock and the tube?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
If there was such a company as Magpul that could actually deliver products I'd agree with you.
Having all the design genius and good intentions in the world is useless if you can't ship a product to consumers.
A company with no products is as bad as a company with bad products.
The move to the Masada is typical of Magpul. My gut is that production of the UBR will suffer as they move to their next "masterpiece" the Masada, and it will suffer as they move to their next masterpiece, etc. I hope not, I want one of those too.
Lots of good ideas, no shipping products. We'll see how it plays out but they have a pretty bad track record to this point.
I am very interested to hear what promises they will make at SHOT this year. I know what promises they made last year.
It's unfortunate because they do have some real design genius at the company.
Last edited:
jerkface11
Member
Chill out. They've all ready shipped out a batch of pre-production stocks. The production model will be out soon.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
That's almost EXACTLY word for word what they said at SHOT 11 months ago.
jerkface11
Member
Really 11 months ago they had already shipped UBR's out to customers?
how so? it doesn't look much better based on the pictures. looks a little sturdier and a lot uglier. not particularly excited about a storage compartment in the stock.
i've put magpul on probation for failing to deliver more stocks to fit on their m93, but the m93 itself is fantastic, as are the pmags. so i'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
edit: i also had a pre-production version of their MIAD grip, and when their final version came out, they sent me a free one. the MIAD grip is also extraordinary.
so that's 3 shipping products that are pretty much best of breed
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
At SHOT last year they said "shipping soon", same as they are saying now.
Nothing has really changed. Some pre-production stocks are out. Do you know what Pre-Production means? That means they are still not close to being able to ship the product in any meaningful quantity.
People spent their hard earned money on the M93, believing the promise of that product and all the follow on accessories, then to be told "nevermind we have something better", then waiting a year and a half for SHOT and the UBR being shown, now one year later still and no final product.
That's just not a very good way to run a business.
As I said I love their design, it's second to none, but if they don't learn how to run the business better it will be very tough going.
They are attempting to move from the small accessory market to the complete firearm market with the Masada. Success will be even tougher in that market space.
Something is going to have to change in the way they do business, why is it such a bad thing to say that out in the open?
I wish them nothing but the best and hope they figure it out, but it's not looking good from a consumers stand point.
OP
OP
Zak Smith
Member
It's totally solid and has no play.
You have an ax to grind with Magpul, but you're also factually incorrect. They are shipping gazillions of their products-- those that are already in production. The UBR isn't quite yet. Yeah, R&D and perfect can take a while to get done. I'd rather wait a little bit longer for something done right. YMMV.
I speculate that one of the lessons Magpul has learned is that the cost for soliciting public feedback about new products and announcing intentions about upcoming product designs is dealing with internet whiners.
Build quality is a big difference. I say this as a total fan of the M93 series. The UBR is a simpler, better, and more robust design, and it put together better.
I think time will prove you wrong. Let's wait and see.
-z
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I have no axe to grind at all, but I know what I've been told by the company over the phone, and I know what has actually happened.
They are not the same thing. If you tell a customer you are going to do something you should know that you can deliver on it.
If you can't, don't promise it.
Ahh yes, the old axiom that business would be wonderful if it wasn't for those annoying customers eh?
Like I say, I hope that is true. I like their products very much but their business timelines are disappointing.
OP
OP
Zak Smith
Member
I wouldn't put it quite like that. We "lose" the privilege of providing feedback that can influence the production version if they go silent and keep everything close-hold and publicize it only as a fait accomplis. I think better products are possible when more actual shooters and warriers get to provide feedback. However, the disillusionment and negative fall-out (e.g. in this thread) due to customer expectations is the cost.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
All you say is true, but companies should not make promises they cannot keep to customers that have spent money with them and want to spend more. In my opinion they could have handled the M93 product termination better, that's all.
This is not about soliciting feedback, it's about doing what you say you will do, which is good for ANY business, and bad when you don't.
And if that happens, and the business suffers or even goes away, then we all lose.
I am a consumer and have a ubr. Actually shipping units is a far far distance from "soon." Its not as though they have a history of not following through and having vapor ware products, they just don't seem to be good about estimating project dates. They handled the UBR completely wrong. They kept saying "in a few weeks/month." This lower has been waiting on one since well before last thanksgiving and I continually thinking it was coming. They make good designs and I'm glad they're perfectionists. I just learned my lesson to not plan on their products until they're out. Buy the masada when its out, I wouldn't not buy other rifles in anticipation of it.
itgoesboom
member
TR,
You must have missed the fact that Magpul already released the UBR pre-production version for sale last month, and sold out quite quickly.
Lot's of people have been waiting for products from Magpul, but look at what they are putting out during this time frame, and what they are working on.
-PMags
-CTR
-MIAD
-Working on the Masada
-Working on a PDR
-Working with Kriss on the KRISS Super V XSMG System I believe
-Working on other magazines for other companies
They seem to be fairly busy, improving what's out there, and coming up with new ideas.
Unfortunately, lot's of people have hammered them for coming out and announcing products that they are working on, so much so that now they seem to not be willing to discuss what they have in the works.
What we had was a company that was dedicated to improving what was available to the public and the military alike, who was open about their ideas and let everyone know well in advance of what they were working on, and is focused on making the best product possible.
Seems they have learned their lesson from all the bashing, and honestly, it's unfortunate.
You must have missed the fact that Magpul already released the UBR pre-production version for sale last month, and sold out quite quickly.
Lot's of people have been waiting for products from Magpul, but look at what they are putting out during this time frame, and what they are working on.
-PMags
-CTR
-MIAD
-Working on the Masada
-Working on a PDR
-Working with Kriss on the KRISS Super V XSMG System I believe
-Working on other magazines for other companies
They seem to be fairly busy, improving what's out there, and coming up with new ideas.
Unfortunately, lot's of people have hammered them for coming out and announcing products that they are working on, so much so that now they seem to not be willing to discuss what they have in the works.
What we had was a company that was dedicated to improving what was available to the public and the military alike, who was open about their ideas and let everyone know well in advance of what they were working on, and is focused on making the best product possible.
Seems they have learned their lesson from all the bashing, and honestly, it's unfortunate.
waterhouse
Member
Thanks for posting the pics Zak. For a rifle already wearing an M93, are there any huge advantages/features to upgrading?
I think this is a great lesson, and one of the major issues at the heart of any Magpul "bashing" (I hesitate to call it that, as universally the products are well liked). It seems like such common sense when you type it like that, but I too fell prey to the "when will it actually be out" game.
I eagerly waited for a UBR to complete a build. The M93 was no longer available, and after owning a few rifles with the M93 I didn't really want to settle for something less. I too was told "soon," which I guess in hindsight is very vague and in no way any sort of guarantee, but at the time I thought, "hey, if it is coming out soon I'll just wait to complete my build." Perhaps something like, "we hit a snag, it will be several months before it is perfected, and we refuse to release a product that isn't perfected," would have worked better. I ended up finding a used M93 for cheap to complete the build.
I'll continue to spend money with Magpul and love their products (as well as the way they handled the PMAG exchange program), but like Soybomb I won't plan any builds around their new products until they are actually in mass production.
I think this is a great lesson, and one of the major issues at the heart of any Magpul "bashing" (I hesitate to call it that, as universally the products are well liked). It seems like such common sense when you type it like that, but I too fell prey to the "when will it actually be out" game.
I eagerly waited for a UBR to complete a build. The M93 was no longer available, and after owning a few rifles with the M93 I didn't really want to settle for something less. I too was told "soon," which I guess in hindsight is very vague and in no way any sort of guarantee, but at the time I thought, "hey, if it is coming out soon I'll just wait to complete my build." Perhaps something like, "we hit a snag, it will be several months before it is perfected, and we refuse to release a product that isn't perfected," would have worked better. I ended up finding a used M93 for cheap to complete the build.
I'll continue to spend money with Magpul and love their products (as well as the way they handled the PMAG exchange program), but like Soybomb I won't plan any builds around their new products until they are actually in mass production.
OP
OP
Zak Smith
Member
I wouldn't say huge. The M93 was the "ideal" stock for me, and there's one ergonomic "feature" of the UBR I don't care for- however, the other advantages of the UBR really eclipse it. The UBR installs literally as fast as an A2 stock (no shims/timing). The locking mechanism is better and easier to operate. The stock is stronger and more solid. The presets won't break. The side buttons for bypassing a preset and removing the tail unit actually work well.
-z
TexasRifleman,
I've been hesitant to reply to any of the countless threads you have trashed complaining about promises that we have not kept. I feel anything I would say would fall on deaf ears. The reason for this is that there have been several replies explaining to you in the same fashion as I would what is going on and why the dates are missed. I did a search and found over 20 threads where you're complaining about the same issues. I've never talked to you on the phone that I know of. I have to come to this site to see you complaining.
I'll explain this again. The UBR was close to completion several times. When we were almost done we found strength issues that needed to be addressed. In addition to that one of our machine shops backed out of the UBR project. These are the reasons for the delay. This is the side of running a business you may not have ever seen.
Your absolutely right about making promises that we can't keep. It was like the 800 lbs gorilla in the room every time a date was missed. Trust me, we did everything we could to make the dates. Because of the mentality you have in addition to me spending time here to communicate something to you that you're having difficulty understanding we've stopped talking about new products. I'm sure this will make you and others happy as you will not know about anything we're doing until it is on the shelves in production form. Then you won't have to worry about us making our release dates. Release dates are not in Magpul's vocab any more.
TexasRifleman, since you have been such a opinionated individual surrounding Magpul's products I'll make you an offer. I've got a FDE UBR here that I'll sell to you right now today. I don't like to see anyone upset at us and it's obvious by many of your posts that you're pretty mad about us not keeping promises. I'll make you this promise though. Send me an email [email protected] and I'll get you a UBR in your hands by the end of this week. Hell, give me a call at 303 828 3460 and I'll take care of you personally.
Drake
For anyone thinking that complaining to no end will get you a UBR, your mistaking.
I've been hesitant to reply to any of the countless threads you have trashed complaining about promises that we have not kept. I feel anything I would say would fall on deaf ears. The reason for this is that there have been several replies explaining to you in the same fashion as I would what is going on and why the dates are missed. I did a search and found over 20 threads where you're complaining about the same issues. I've never talked to you on the phone that I know of. I have to come to this site to see you complaining.
I'll explain this again. The UBR was close to completion several times. When we were almost done we found strength issues that needed to be addressed. In addition to that one of our machine shops backed out of the UBR project. These are the reasons for the delay. This is the side of running a business you may not have ever seen.
Your absolutely right about making promises that we can't keep. It was like the 800 lbs gorilla in the room every time a date was missed. Trust me, we did everything we could to make the dates. Because of the mentality you have in addition to me spending time here to communicate something to you that you're having difficulty understanding we've stopped talking about new products. I'm sure this will make you and others happy as you will not know about anything we're doing until it is on the shelves in production form. Then you won't have to worry about us making our release dates. Release dates are not in Magpul's vocab any more.
TexasRifleman, since you have been such a opinionated individual surrounding Magpul's products I'll make you an offer. I've got a FDE UBR here that I'll sell to you right now today. I don't like to see anyone upset at us and it's obvious by many of your posts that you're pretty mad about us not keeping promises. I'll make you this promise though. Send me an email [email protected] and I'll get you a UBR in your hands by the end of this week. Hell, give me a call at 303 828 3460 and I'll take care of you personally.
Drake
For anyone thinking that complaining to no end will get you a UBR, your mistaking.
- Status
