Making 7.5x54 French Brass from 30-06

[dh1633pm]

Anyone else make 7.5x54 brass from 30-06? I just purchased a MAS-36 and like any firearm, its no fun having unless you can shoot it. I have a kazillion 150 grain 308 bullets and even more 30-06 brass.

I found some posts that you could make the brass from 30-06 but everyone seems to have their own recipe for the conversion.

I started with 20. Lubed them up good with my home made concoction. Ran one through the 7.5 French die. It came out with a really long neck. I then set my trimmer for about 54MM. Was actually about 53.96. No sense adjusting for the other .04. After some cutting, I used my tools to clean up the edges. I then ran it though the die again just to make sure.

Don't have the rifle yet. Should be in very shortly and I can see how the brass chambers.

Am I on the right track?

 

[GooseGestapo]

Make sure you have enough neck clearance with seated bullet.
If too thick, might need neck turning or reaming.
Might want anneal the necks for longevity.
There was an article in Reloader Magazine about the French 7.5, and forming brass.
Rumor has it that it inspired the development of the .308/7.62x51.

 

[dh1633pm]

Thanks for the input. Sure will anneal the brass.

 

[Galil5.56]

I tried it, but found in both of my rifles (49/56 and wartime MAS 36), that 06 dimensions were just too small, and the bulging too much... And that's saying something, from someone who loads .308 brass, fired in an Isapore 2A. Rim Dia of 7.5x54 is .487", head .485... 06 is about 20 thousandths smaller for both dims. Much better in my opinion, to use 6.5x55 as the donor case, or buy the nice Privi brass/ammo. I too read the Reloaders Magazine article, and my results sure don't match theirs. The load data they submit seems sound, and IMR 4895 is just as magical here, as about anywhere else.

FWIW, attached are some very mild 150 cast loads... No way would I use load full power 7.5x54 in 06 cases, per my experience, and hope your experience is better. BTW, if you have never owned/shot a MAS 36, you are in for a treat. Built like a tank, nice workmanship, very accurate, very handy, but the triggers are kinda lousy IME. Ugly in a beautiful way, and very underrated. Love mine.

 

[dh1633pm]

Thanks for the input Galil5.56. I just did five for now. I can load them up as dummies or just try to fireform to see the results. I have to travel for work the next couple weeks, it will be early May before I get a real chance to do some testing.

 

[farmerboy78]

Hello again, I think you are definitely on the right track... but as stated, you may have to neck turn to get a loaded rounds to chamber in the rifle. You can fired full power loads in the '06 brass as long as you start a little low and work up to the right load for the rifle. I do the same thing for my 6.5-06 and used .308 win brass for 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[dh1633pm]

I converted a bunch of 22-250 into 6.5 Creedmoor with good results. My MAS-36 will be in sometime next week. I was supposed to travel to St Louis next week, but that trip was cancelled. As a result, I can pick up the rifle when it arrives next week, and then test it. I made a single dummy round last night with a 150 Hornady FMJ. I will do some testing when the rifle is in my hands. Thanks farmerboy78 for the input.

 

[Ireload2]

The 7.5 chamber in my 36/51 MAS was too large even for 6.5X55 brass. It caused way too much swelling even with mild loads. Back then there was no 7.5 MAS brass on the market so I swaged some 7.5X55 Swiss Schmidt Rubin to fit my rifle. Because of this I would never use 30-06 brass for the French round. You might want to avoid Lee dies since they are too small and size the cases excessively. Buy RCBS and you will be happy.
The Lee dies are so small in diameter they cause the case to lengthen very quickly.

 

[fpgt72]

I just use the "real" brass so I can't comment on your project, but I will say it is a very under rated rifle, just a joy to shoot. They are a bit porky but we don't have to hump them but from the car to the table. Mine is real accurate as well...really a great rifle. After you try the 36 try to find yourself a 49/56, I really love this thing as well, and about everything I said about the 36 will echo over here. If you don't have good luck with the project just pickup some brass it is not that bad cost wise....they are very worth the investment to enjoy them.

 

[Galil5.56]

Ireload, were your 6.5x55 cases US made (not to real 6.5x55 specs), or full head/rim diameter cases, made to true 6.5x55 specs? If US spec brass, what you saw is exactly what I got using 06 brass; way too much swelling with any reasonable 7.5x54 chamber... As I wrote in my previous post, 20 thousandths is a lot of space to fill, if using 06 brass. Of course, even with "good" 6.5 Swede brass, I would not be too surprised by what you got, considering it is a military rifle. FWIW, Swedish military brass converted to 7.5 French, looked really good fired in my rifles, w/o any goofy stuff as I recall.

Did you have any issues with the converted 7.5x55 brass, with its significantly larger rim diameter (.495" vs .485" of two Privi factory rounds I just mic'd), and larger head diameter? I'm lucky in that my original wartime made MAS 36, and non-refurb 49/56, have what seem very nice chambers, with fired 7.5x54 brass showing very little expansion/no bulges, other weird crap.

As for Lee dies, my first set way over sized cases, and I sent them back for correction. Received them/new ones back that were a lot better, especially across the shoulder, but still a bit tight. They even included the die dimensional chart they used, that is written in German, in mm, converted into inches. Like it is with so many foreign calibers, you will see charts all over the map, as to what makes for correct dimensions. Even when CIP says one thing, it seems others say something else... Then to compound things for example, we have the issue of actual different chamber dims, for say the various Swiss 7.5x55 rifles out there. Just another one of the nuanced charms, reloading treat you too.

 

[eastbank]

i have both a 49/56 and a 36/51and reload prvi brass, both rifles are sturdy and pretty accurett. i,m lucky a good friend who owns a gun shop has the same interest as i in shooting all milsurp rifles and he has a good supply of the prvi ammo and he sells or trades me what i need at good prices-deals. may i recommend that you buy five boxes of prvi ammo and after you shoot them you will have 100 good once fired cases in your rifle to reload. eastbank.

 

[fpgt72]

I am really looking for a mount and glass for mine as well....they come up from time to time, I am just never in the correct place at the correct time.

 

[eastbank]

i found the K-VAR NOS mount on the internet some time ago and put a older 2.5 weaver K scope to try the mount, holds zero and 2.5" groups at 100 yards from a bench rest, i put a removable cheek rest to get a good cheek weld as the scope is high. i have had several of the 49/56,s and this one was the best shooter and i kept it. i shoot no corrosive ammo out of any of my milsurp semi-auto rifles. i also put a adjustable gas valve in my 49/56 to keep my brass from going into the next county and use cci-34 milsurp primers to avoid slam fires. eastbank.

 

[dh1633pm]

Thanks everyone for all the comments. I appreciate it more than you might think. I am in DC this week and will pick up the rifle next. Then I can do some testing. I might just pick up some privi brass. Looking forward to adding another surplus rifle to the collection. Next I am on the lookout for an 1917 Enfield. But first things first.

 

[fpgt72]

i found the K-VAR NOS mount on the internet some time ago and put a older 2.5 weaver K scope to try the mount, holds zero and 2.5" groups at 100 yards from a bench rest, i put a removable cheek rest to get a good cheek weld as the scope is high. i have had several of the 49/56,s and this one was the best shooter and i kept it. i shoot no corrosive ammo out of any of my milsurp semi-auto rifles. i also put a adjustable gas valve in my 49/56 to keep my brass from going into the next county and use cci-34 milsurp primers to avoid slam fires. eastbank.

That is one thing mine does...fling the brass into a low earth orbit.

I actually have some of that old surplus ammo, but I agree 100% I am not going to fire corrosive in any automatic....Not my SVT, or PSL, not my G43....nothing. It is just a pain in the tushy. Bolt gun easy. But I still have not used in in the 36....I am reloading for the 7.5 now and it is no black magic.

You should see people when I say I reload the 54R....what fer....there is tons of surplus out there....yea but I am an old and lazy....if I run 20 rounds in a gun I don 't want to have to clean it....and 20 new modern rounds....eh the gun is darn near clean anyway....I will just pack it up....not going to hurt a thing.

Now that corrosive, I have had that rust over lunch....I now carry a water bottle with a little oil in it to pour down it to wash the gun down....it actually works well enough you can stop for food after going to the range and not have your rifle start to rust.....I think I picked that trick up on the mosin forum....it does work.

Oops....veggie oil....you are pouring it on the ground....while I am not an echo goofball I do not think pouring oil on the ground is a good thing.

 

[Galil5.56]

You should see people when I say I reload the 54R....what fer....there is tons of surplus out there

Yep, and they probably have never completely cleaned an SVT-40... My SVT-40, and M39 only get my reloads, even if they are twice the price. I love reloading, and 54r is a neat round to reload. Although the MAS 49/56 is much easier to clean, it's still a reload only situation, and boy do these rifle shoot lights out.

 

[Ireload2]

There was no US made 6.5X55 brass back then only Norma and Prvi Partisan imported by Hansen.
(BTW Federal brass is made to the normal Swedish dimensions. The Rem and Win brass I have run into is way under size.)

The 7.5X55 Schmidt Rubin brass made really good cases for a bolt gun. I am not sure they would have worked in the auto loader. The only problem was the effort to make those cases. Swaging the case head down took an automotive shop hydraulic press and a heavy duty drill bushing.

CIP should be the final word for dimensions of Euro cartridges but in reality they have to use the previously engineered chambers and cartridges including the mistakes.
I have seen the goofy Lee dimensions that Lee used as an excuse for shoddy engineering.
If they want accurate dimensions they should buy a few rifles, some imported ammo, and some of their competitors dies to examine before they make their dies wrong.

Ireload, were your 6.5x55 cases US made (not to real 6.5x55 specs), or full head/rim diameter cases, made to true 6.5x55 specs? If US spec brass, what you saw is exactly what I got using 06 brass; way too much swelling with any reasonable 7.5x54 chamber... As I wrote in my previous post, 20 thousandths is a lot of space to fill, if using 06 brass. Of course, even with "good" 6.5 Swede brass, I would not be too surprised by what you got, considering it is a military rifle. FWIW, Swedish military brass converted to 7.5 French, looked really good fired in my rifles, w/o any goofy stuff as I recall.

Did you have any issues with the converted 7.5x55 brass, with its significantly larger rim diameter (.495" vs .485" of two Privi factory rounds I just mic'd), and larger head diameter? I'm lucky in that my original wartime made MAS 36, and non-refurb 49/56, have what seem very nice chambers, with fired 7.5x54 brass showing very little expansion/no bulges, other weird crap.

As for Lee dies, my first set way over sized cases, and I sent them back for correction. Received them/new ones back that were a lot better, especially across the shoulder, but still a bit tight. They even included the die dimensional chart they used, that is written in German, in mm, converted into inches. Like it is with so many foreign calibers, you will see charts all over the map, as to what makes for correct dimensions. Even when CIP says one thing, it seems others say something else... Then to compound things for example, we have the issue of actual different chamber dims, for say the various Swiss 7.5x55 rifles out there. Just another one of the nuanced charms, reloading treat you too.

 

[dh1633pm]

I have been out of town for the last two weeks. Just got back and went to pickup my MAS36 today. She is a sweet one. Still have the arsenal tag on it. I made a dummy round and four other pieces of brass from 30-06. The dummy round fit like a glove. So then I setup another to fireform. So in went about 9 grains of lil-gun and the rest cream of wheat topped with some paper to hold it together. Wife at work so a took a pile of old rages and fired it off in the basement.

Now it smells like burnt cream of wheat in the house. Better open the doors before she gets home in a couple hours.

The fired case looked about the same as the case from which I started. Unless someone knows something I am overlooking, I am going to take pictures to share on here later and keep moving forward with some low powered 7.5 French with 150 grain FMJ's and IMR4895 Powder. But for now, I have to get the cream of wheat out of the bore.

 

[dh1633pm]

No cosmoline on the outside, but without my glasses the bore looked clean enough. I did check for obstructions at the gunshop when I picked it up. So now I get to clean cosmoline and burnt cream of wheat out of the bore.