GBExpat
Member
Wow ... I am surprised that it took two whole days for one of the Dont-Use-Reloads-For-SD folks to post in this type of thread ... especially considering the @SUBJ. 
Making my own SD ammo for 44 S&W Special
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kerreckt
Member
I enjoy shooting my .44 spl.(4) more than any other handguns. I mostly load #429421/250gr. LSWC (12 bhn+/-.)with any of the usual powders, (AA#2,BE,PP,Unique,20/28,VV310,320,TG,HPC18 and such) that will get you 700-850fps.+/-. The wide range in velocity is due in great part to barrel length. They all are, as accurate as, I am. This load will do everything it should...accurate and lethal. Comfortable to shoot. This load is intended to be used within 100yds.+/-.
I don't have to load or practice with anything different. I feel this load uses the .44spl. to its full potential and will be lethal to 99.99% of the critters that may endanger you. Shot placement makes these things possible so don't blame the gun. It does roughly the same thing the .45acp does but differently. That's my $.02.
I don't have to load or practice with anything different. I feel this load uses the .44spl. to its full potential and will be lethal to 99.99% of the critters that may endanger you. Shot placement makes these things possible so don't blame the gun. It does roughly the same thing the .45acp does but differently. That's my $.02.
mdm
Member
It's got to be a record. I thought it was a forum requirement for it to hit within the first hour or by the fourth response whichever comes first.
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RealGun
Member
That hijack is often successful, so let's not encourage it. Hopefully we can stay specific to 44 S&W Special.
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RealGun
Member
That is an adequate guideline for 696 as well. The bullets should not be too light either nor velocity too high, because the forcing cone wall (term?) is necessarily thin, cut from an L frame barrel..
35 Whelen
Member
Nah! Don't bother.35 Whelen said:
That is not the subject of this thread. That question has been thoroughly discussed multiple time on this board. Anyone who is interested in that topic can find and review past threads through this thread: Carrying Handloads for Self Defense.
We will not, however, be going over that well trod ground here. Post on that topic will at least be deleted and/or this thread will be closed.
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RealGun
Member
I have been using Federals on everything, because it was all I could get when I stocked up a year or two back. All the SPP, SPMP, LPP, and LPMP have worked perfectly, either in the Lee turret or the Hornady LnL AP.
I haven't had time to try the latest load with magnum primers instead of regular. It's only been two days since the last range visit. I go pretty much every Saturday.
I will be switching to my CCI stash soon, because my Federal LPMP are almost gone. I would buy more Federals with no hesitation.
I use HS-6 also on .38 S&W Special and .357 Magnum, the 38s getting a standard primer.
I haven't had time to try the latest load with magnum primers instead of regular. It's only been two days since the last range visit. I go pretty much every Saturday.
I will be switching to my CCI stash soon, because my Federal LPMP are almost gone. I would buy more Federals with no hesitation.
I use HS-6 also on .38 S&W Special and .357 Magnum, the 38s getting a standard primer.
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thx for the reply. was interested if the mag primer (any mag primer, not necessarily federal) works better than standard with hs-6. i'm always interested in better performance in my loads. if a mag primer doesn't improve an hs-6 loaded round, that's good info to know.
murf
murf
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I think trying different bullets is a good idea. You just might find a load that acts like a laser, especially with a Gold Dot bullet which I have found to be very accurate bullets in several cartridges.
Back to your original post though, I see no reason why those XTP bullets shouldn't make a good SD round. Try that load with a magnum primer and I feel you will get better results and be happier with the results.
Mad Chemist
Member
The XTP will work. I just don't think they will open up much at about 900fps. I'm pretty sure that all of the XTP bullets in that caliber are designed with .44mag in mind. The old GD flying ashtray OTOH, will certainly open up nicely at reasonable .44spl velocities. Personally, I wouldn't want to get shot with either. If I wanted a good penetrator for a back woods load I would chose the XTP. For a primarily SD load for 2 legged critters, I would choose the 200gr GDHP. Just my $.02
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I have to clarify something that surprised me. With all this talk about the XTP bullet not expanding (and I was one of them) I went to the Hornady site and looked at what they have to say. According to Hornady the working velocity of that 200gr XTP/HP bullet is 750 fps to 1,650 fps so I guess that bullet isn't a bad choice.
http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-200-gr-HP-XTP/
I guess I was thrown because the 200gr Gold Dot bullets is listed as a 44 Special bullet and the 210gr GD bullet is listed as a .44 Magnum bullet so I was confident the 200gr GD bullet would perform at the velocities associated with the .44 Special.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=189
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=190
http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-200-gr-HP-XTP/
I guess I was thrown because the 200gr Gold Dot bullets is listed as a 44 Special bullet and the 210gr GD bullet is listed as a .44 Magnum bullet so I was confident the 200gr GD bullet would perform at the velocities associated with the .44 Special.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=189
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=190
OldmanFCSA
Member
I've had great experience using the XTPs in any handgun loading whether heavy & slow or light & fast.
My daughter carries a 44Spcl with 240 grain XTPs as her purse gun. it is effective as a deterrent or in actual use. It will hurt you!!!
My daughter carries a 44Spcl with 240 grain XTPs as her purse gun. it is effective as a deterrent or in actual use. It will hurt you!!!
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RealGun
Member
Perhaps not the lighter ones. I have Hornady Custom in 44 S&W Special with 180 grain XTP bullets. I also have boxed .430 XTP bullets in 180 and 200 grain. Those would be rather fast for 44 magnum, just as a 240 grain would be labored under 44 Special loads/cases.
I expect the bullet's performance would be better in 44 Magnum loads, based on what others have said about the bullet not expanding easily. But even Hornady has moved to touting their FTX bullets, which I have avoided for the shortened cases and light bullet weights. Too old school I guess. I will try the Speer Gold Dot route if I find the bullets next time out.
gamestalker
member
That 9.3 gr. charge of HS6 seems a bit warm, and I'm known around here for my warm personality? But seriously, your over Hodgdon's published max charge for HS6 with 200 gr. JHP's by .3 grs..
Did you by chance work up to that charge? Sounds like you just jumped right in without testing the water first?
What firearm are you running these in?
GS
Did you by chance work up to that charge? Sounds like you just jumped right in without testing the water first?
What firearm are you running these in?
GS
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RealGun
Member
Not to worry. I'm not new at this. 9.3 gr is Hornady's own XTP load. My powder drops have stabilized at 9.2. My desired velocity was around 800. The rounds shoot fine. If I am loading SD test rounds, I am not going to waste premium bullets on conservative loads. Hornady is generally conservative as it is. In any case, HS-6 works better if you push it, including magnum primers.
The guns are two made specifically for self defense. One is a Smith 696 and the other is a Taurus 441, both 5 shot, 3 inch.
Mad Chemist
Member
Real Gun,
You have a 696, I am now officially jealous. A 696 was the last gun I helped a buddy work up some MBC 240gr lswc loads with. He tried the old Skeeter Skelton load but found it just a little too "brisk" for his liking. We bumped it down to 6.9 gr of Unique and he was happy with the result. Very accurate and easy follow up shots on multiple clays set as targets at 10yds.
How do you know what powder and weight Hornady is using? Did you get that info from Hornady? I would be surprised if they gave you data that was greater than published.
You have a 696, I am now officially jealous. A 696 was the last gun I helped a buddy work up some MBC 240gr lswc loads with. He tried the old Skeeter Skelton load but found it just a little too "brisk" for his liking.
We bumped it down to 6.9 gr of Unique and he was happy with the result. Very accurate and easy follow up shots on multiple clays set as targets at 10yds.How do you know what powder and weight Hornady is using? Did you get that info from Hornady? I would be surprised if they gave you data that was greater than published.
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RealGun
Member
Sorry if you found my post misleading. I was referring to the load in the Hornady book, 9th Edition.
Mad Chemist
Member
OK, I'm reading you clearly now. I don't have any Hornady manuals so I was running off of Hogdon data.
Have you shot those loads yet? I'd expect them to be a bit stout.
Have you shot those loads yet? I'd expect them to be a bit stout.
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RealGun
Member
I just took the load as recommended by Hornady. I think SD rounds are naturally on the upper end of the scale, don't you. There isn't a lot of drama from the test rounds. As someone who regularly shoots serious magnum loads in various calibers, these 44 S&W Specials seem pretty forgiving to me. I don't think I am pushing the guns too hard, since the only caveat I am aware of is running too many high velocity, lightweight bullets through a relatively thin-walled forcing cone, which is the case with both these guns.
Mad Chemist
Member
For SD rounds in calibers larger than 9x19, I don't typically go for max velocity. I usually focus on accuracy and quick recovery to subsequent targets. I usually try to meet a threshold velocity that is optimal for the caliber/bullet combo and then tune it from there.
For a 200gr JHP out of a .44spl from a 3" bbl, my sweet spot is likely to be somewhere right around 900fps, give or take a little. I think you hit diminishing returns quickly once you get up to and above 1000fps.
This is just my opinion of course, nothing more.
For a 200gr JHP out of a .44spl from a 3" bbl, my sweet spot is likely to be somewhere right around 900fps, give or take a little. I think you hit diminishing returns quickly once you get up to and above 1000fps.
This is just my opinion of course, nothing more.
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RealGun
Member
Shot some 8.4 and 9.2 gr XTP rounds yesterday and thought the 8.4 seemed adequate and more compatible with the gun mass and shorter (3") barrel length. I will take my chrono next time, but the book rating of 8.4 gr HS-6, 200 gr XTP is in the 750-800 range. I could get the load a bit higher, right on the 800 fps spec, with a change to an adjustable charge bar. I do this caliber on a Lee turret.
Half of the test rounds were standard primers and half with Magnums. I did not sense anything that demanded magnums in these loadings.
Half of the test rounds were standard primers and half with Magnums. I did not sense anything that demanded magnums in these loadings.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
If you sent those rounds over a chrono you would probably see the reason for using a magnum primer. HS-6 just performs better when set off with magnum primers.
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