Mall Police

[grampster]

I'll just throw this out for discussion:

Since many malls attract the numbers of people that inhabit small towns, should malls consider creating their own sworn and fully trained and armed police forces. Perhaps hired through, but exclusively assigned to the mall by the county sheriff in that jurisdiction?

Thoughts?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Police are more expensive than private security. It would be best to entice the law enforcement agency to establish a sub-station and to do so, the spot should be gratis. I'm sure the eating establishments will provide gratis food too, but who wants McGrubs?

 

[DWARREN123]

Security is expensive, the better the more the cost. Just do away with the no firearms signs, get free security.

 

[ilbob]

i am not thrilled with anyone being able to rent cops. they should have no financial allegiance to a private entity.

i know it is a common thing, but it ought to be stopped.

if a cop wants to work off duty, he can work as a private citizen, not as cop for hire.

a lot of malls have police substations to encourage more police presence, but police are a limited resource.

the real problem is that armed security insurance costs are insane. police departments don't have to worry about it because they can tax you at whatever rate it takes to pay for it at the point of a gun. if you don't believe that, don't pay your taxes some time and see what happens.

i don't know how it is in other states, but in illinois, costs for judgements against governments are paid by the tort fund tax. and you don't get to vote on what that tax is.

 

[Wopasaurus]

For what you'd pay one real cop at a mall (because usual security jobs for real cops, they expect at least time and a half their usual salary) you can pay 5 mall cops.

Obviously 5 unarmed teenagers are going to fare better than a grown dude who's trained with a pistol, even a taser... I'm pretty sure those are deadly weapons now.

 

[grampster]

What about a "mall security tax" on purchases to fund the sworn, mall dedicated police force? Pays for the officers etc, but as sworn officers they are part of the municipality where the mall is, so are covered by government immunity that presently exists. I'm not talking about hiring off duty police. The department I worked for in the '60's had 4 officers that specifically policed the local zoo and park where the zoo was located. They were members of our department and we filled in for them when they were ill or on vacation.

 

[ilbob]

Security is expensive, the better the more the cost. Just do away with the no firearms signs, get free security.

If malls thought it was worth the money, they could get better security and better security guards. But it is not a trivial problem, starting with the almost universal antipathy to such things by local LE agencies.

You would need something like the training program for nuclear security guards. And something like the same caliber of people. there would also need to be a commitment to ongoing training, and proper staffing levels to avoid the problems the nuclear security industry has had.

You are probably talking about people who would need to be paid something like $15 an hour (plus benefits), with perhaps 500 hours of training prior to being put on duty. The training would probably cost something like $20 grand per guard, maybe more.

Add in ongoing training, and supervision, and you can see that it is a very expensive proposition.

To get a full shift of just 3 guards from say 6am to midnight, would require about 12 FT guards plus maybe 3 supervisors at an upfront cost of around $250 grand, and an ongoing cost of maybe $600 grand a year.

Add in attrition and the need to train replacements continually, and you can see why it is prohibitively expensive for even the biggest malls.

putting regular cops there is even more expensive.

 

[Beatnik]

Why even consider it?
Anything we say other than "YOUR SAFETY IS YOUR PROBLEM" is only going to hurt our interests.
I'm a free man. I am not a victim. If the mall doesn't like free people shopping there, well, the internet doesn't care if I carry, so sucks for the mall.
Everyone else can figure out the problem by themselves: I'm not playing that game.

 

[silverking]

PLEEZE-----give me a home where the buffalo roam and the malls don't exist.

 

[lance22]

What exactly is the mission of an unarmed security person?

It seems that to some, Suicide by Mall Rampage is the way to 'go out with a bang'. Yet, antis will not allow security guards to be armed even if it means saving life. Since when is saving life less important that political agenda?

 

[Beatnik]

What exactly is the mission of an unarmed security person?

Judging by personal experience, it's to tell a person who has spent the morning mowing the back 40 at a historic site, and who is only in there to drop off a check for his brother-in-law, that the bandana which is stopping all the little bits of Virginia wilderness from falling out of his hair onto the mall floor is unwelcome in the mall, since bandanas are known gang symbols.

Idiots.

 

[Markbo]

Perspective. I try to remember what perspective everyone thinks from. Mall security in the big sprawling Mogopolis that is Houston, Texas is not geared toward protecting anyone. It is geared towared protecting stores - mostly from shoplifters - and way secondarily to vandals. Maybe the super rare occasion there is a teenage fistfight in the food court.

You guys need to remember that YOUR perspective is not everyone else's perspective. I know since my CCW training I am on condition yellow when I get into a Mall parking lot. I am scanning, looking, watching... I am on alert. But the last thing I am looking for is a $9/hr security guard! That alert goes way down once inside... then it is just shuffling along with the rest of the herd praying for a swift and merciful end to the trip.

I try to never forget that I as a CCW carrier I am grossly in the minority of the general populace and that what I think about guns, self defense, personal responsibility, malls and security guards are not what most people think about them. I am OK being on the outside of the majority, but I need to always remember that I am.

 

[keeleon]

Our mall has a police substation, and it seems to work out well enough. One cop on duty while the mall is open, and like 5 security guys with mace and a radio. I used to be really good freinds with the night shift guy, and we would have our run of the mall. He would take me onto the roof and showed me where all the holes were, lol, and I'm talking people falling through size holes.

Having at leasst one cop stationed there is not a bad idea, though, because while the security can't do much i na real nasty encounter, they can radio the on site cop, and he can be there within a minute or so.

 

[Noxx]

What about a "mall security tax"

I see little enough of my check as it is.

 

[lanternlad1]

There was a murder here at a local mall that had a police substation. Didn't stop a wacko from going in and shooting a total stranger. Wackos, can't be stopped, just limited.

 

[critter]

Malls with unarmed security guards (whistle jockeys) and 'no ccw' signs should be sued off the planet for not allowing people to protect themselves and THEN NOT PROVIDING PROTECTION.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Malls with unarmed security guards (whistle jockeys) and 'no ccw' signs should be sued off the planet for not allowing people to protect themselves and THEN NOT PROVIDING PROTECTION.

I don't like the idea of gov't telling private businesses what they can or can't do, and I don't like anyone being sued out of business rather than letting customers vote with their wallet. But I do agree if they want to disarm the good guys they are setting themselves up for disasters. Would they put up a no weapons sign that said "...this includes law enforcement"?

 

[kd7nqb]

What exactly is the mission of an unarmed security person?

Observe and report, its really that limited.

As an unarmed security officer, I wish I had more authority or at least the tools and training to effect situations on a greater level. Oddly enough the largest difference between armed and unarmed security is not just the presence of a firearm. Armed officers are much more effectively trained on everything from situational awareness to restraint techniques and the use of firearms.

As someone who is unarmed at work and carries a firearm off duty, if I knew the site I was working at had a high population of citizens carrying, that would be a major plus.


For the record I dont mind being an unarmed officer but am in the process to get become an LEO once I finish my degree. Nothing in this post is meant to be construed as me thinking I am any sort of LEO at this time, the best thing I can do in any situation more violent than a shoplift, is become a good witness and remain calm while in contact with police.



FYI: I can assure you mall security is the joke of our industry, and Gecko45 is a legend. The sad thing is that in Oregon the malls pay about 20% better than most security jobs. I dont do mall security but do often work in a retail district.

 

[Archer1945]

As far as having armed security in a mall what are you going to arm them with? I work for a MAJOR aircraft manufacturer building high performance military aircraft for the NAVY, MARINES and AIR FORCE. Does F/A 18 and F-15ring a bell? Plus all sorts of highly classified research. Our security personell are not allowed to carry any thing larger than .38SP because that is all St Louis County Police, who license security guards will allow them to carry. Not to knock the .38SP because I know what it can do with the proper ammo, but what good is a mall guard with a six-shot .38 going to be against hi-cap semi-autos and rifles?

 

[ilbob]

I put myself through school working as a security guard. Not too awful for a job where in some cases they actually pay you to sit at a desk all night and do homework.

The thing is that it is very hard to justify a huge amount of money on an ongoing basis on something that is needed once in a blue moon.

I am generally in favor of using unarmed guards where that is most appropriate, and it is appropriate in a lot, maybe most cases. There are other cases where armed guards are more appropriate (armored car service comes to mind).

There are some cases where you can make good arguments either way. Malls are one of those cases IMO. Training someone to have the discipline not to shoot because there are so many innocents in the area is going to be difficult if someone is shooting at you, assuming you don't run in the opposite direction, or just freeze up. That training is not cheap. I am not sure you gain anything by putting a gun on a typical guard in a mall. Most armed guards do not have dealings with large crowds of people.

It is an entirely different ballgame dealing one on one with an armed robber than having a sniper shooting into a crowd. Even well trained cops do not deal with these kind of situations very well when they come across them, largely because they happen so rarely.

 

[Creature]

No. Post signs welcoming CCW permit holders. Cheap and easy.

 

[Eric F]

Some one once said you can either have Freedom or you can have Security. But when you try to have both at the same time you dont have a lot of either.

Forign countries make you go through metal detectors run through your belongings and in some cases have the right to strip search you. Is this what you want so you can be secure?

Come on folks malls do not need a police station. This is a typical knee jerk reaction thread. As far as the No ccw in malls well "freedom" here is choose not to shop there. There are several malls in my area most have the "no weapons" signs all over the doors ect so I either leave in in the car or I dont shop there. There is 1 mall that does not have the signs. I do not ask as I do not have to the law is plain if it is not posted then you can CCW.

So Exercise your Freedom and dont shop where you cant CCW and quit crying about it. Put your big girl panties on and deal with it!

Some folks take this CCW stuff to fanitic levels. They get all worked up because some body legaly says no. Well, When its your time you will go and a gun wont stop it. So take a deep breath and go on with your life you might find it more enjoyable instead of worrying who might be out to get you.

One more thing for the most part Mall Security guards are not there to prevent crime or even arrest violaters of the law they are there for insurance purposes to look out for safety violations like trip hazards and to be fire watches.

 

[Mr White]

There is but one sure fire solution to the mall violence/security issue:

Internet Shopping.

 

[Cougfan2]

I think this is a job for, TA DA, Gecko45!

 

[Nebor]

I was at Northpark Mall in Dallas on Saturday. I saw around 20 security guards (pepper spray, handcuffs, radio) and around 15 police officers (Mainly DISD, DPD and DCS.) Security has always been tight at this mall.

I did see something that stood out in the parking lot, but I had to walk up and talk to him to be sure. There was a Kansas State Trooper directing traffic outside the mall. I saw it on his uniform as a cruised past, so I walked by him after I parked. Said he was in Dallas for the holidays, and just making some extra money. I wouldn't think he'd have any legal authority in Texas, for instance, open carrying his Kimber Desert Warrior. Nice guy though.