Was in the local shop other day. Guy was looking at a nice piece. But his looking had me looking down the barrel. He had been doing this for several minutes. Solution? "Hey, if you don't point that thing somewhere else, you won't need a holster because I'm going to shove it up your a$$." It got pointed elsewhere.
man, i hate guns pointed at me
- Thread starter MJRW
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That's why gun shows are nervewracking to me. I enjoy them, but having hundreds of guns pointed at me in the course of an hour bothers the crap out of me. Worse yet is when you walk out and inevitably here the sound of a slide being worked behind you. Ugh.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
A more polite request would have worked just as well.
It may have. But at that point I was just so fed up with him pointing it, me moving out of the way, him pointing it, me moving out of the way. And then couple that with the frustration of having to remind people AT ALL not to point at me. I'm not the one who was impolite first and don't feel I should have to even consider politeness when advocating my own safety from their impolite unsafe handling.
El Tejon
Member
Just because someone is "into" guns, does not mean they know what they are doing. What percentage of THR could recite the Four Rules? A third? Maybe less?
I would say: "That way is safe." or something more tactful, after I move out of the way. Plus, a mini-lecture on the Four Rules would help them.
I would say: "That way is safe." or something more tactful, after I move out of the way. Plus, a mini-lecture on the Four Rules would help them.
Leatherneck
Member
Guys, Guys...it's a Northern Virginia thing. Sad, but truer every day. 
TC
TFL Survivor
TC
TFL Survivor
shootist2121
Member
At Gunshows..I always point a weapon I'm looking at whether rifle or pistol toward the ceiling...PERIOD!
Got told once by the seller "Gun's unloaded you know1"...I replied.."Yes I know..I checked it before I aimed at the ceiling.."..
If you do it ..It becomes infectious..To those around you..Especialy if you make it a theatrical event..LOL
Be safe.
Got told once by the seller "Gun's unloaded you know1"...I replied.."Yes I know..I checked it before I aimed at the ceiling.."..
If you do it ..It becomes infectious..To those around you..Especialy if you make it a theatrical event..LOL
Be safe.
Chipperman
Member
Tejon,
I think you mean gun owners in general, not THR crew.
I think you mean gun owners in general, not THR crew.
jimcon
Member
I was in a local gun store about 2 weeks ago chatting with the owner (a friend), when a police officer entered with an AR-15 and demanded immediate help with his weapon. Over the next few minutes he covered both the owner and myself mumerous times. We both asked him to stop it and his response was that he had verified that it was unloaded earlier in the day. He also stated that he was on the SWAT team and KNEW weapons. After the owner verified that the gun was actually unloaded (it was), I got out.
deputy tom
Member
Having worked in a gunshop for over 15 years and attending shows for 35 years I've had thousands of firearms pointed at me.So many that I've become calloused and don't even notice anymore.tom.
voilsb
Member
El Tejon hit on a good point. I could even be used as a decent example of this.
I'm into guns. I like them a lot. I do what I can do constantly learn more about them. I'm a decent shot. But there's lots of stuff I don't know.
Some of you guys aren't going to like this next part, but I don't know the "four rules" and, truthfully, I don't care to learn them. I'm safe with guns without knowing them.
Why? Because I don't point the gun at something I'm not willing to kill, maim, or destroy. I don't put my finger on the trigger unless I'm willing to kill, maim, or destroy whatever the barrel is pointed at. I practice situational awareness with the firearm, paying attention to whether it's loaded or chambered, and with what sort of ammunition, etc.
In fact, my job specifically requires me to, at times, take careful aim at a coworker with a loaded firearm, pull the trigger, and discharge the firearm. Somehow, I've never hurt anyone with guns, either. Maybe it's because I was aware that the rifle was loaded with blanks and had the blank adapter installed correctly.
So much for the "four rules", eh? But then again, rules have exceptions and are really no more than general guidelines. It's not like they're the "four laws" or the "four divine commandments" of firearms.
Oh, and a nice anecdote from Black Hawk Down (paraphrased, not quoted):
CO: Why do you have a hot weapon in my chow line?
Delta guy (holding up index finger): This is my safety.
I'm into guns. I like them a lot. I do what I can do constantly learn more about them. I'm a decent shot. But there's lots of stuff I don't know.
Some of you guys aren't going to like this next part, but I don't know the "four rules" and, truthfully, I don't care to learn them. I'm safe with guns without knowing them.
Why? Because I don't point the gun at something I'm not willing to kill, maim, or destroy. I don't put my finger on the trigger unless I'm willing to kill, maim, or destroy whatever the barrel is pointed at. I practice situational awareness with the firearm, paying attention to whether it's loaded or chambered, and with what sort of ammunition, etc.
In fact, my job specifically requires me to, at times, take careful aim at a coworker with a loaded firearm, pull the trigger, and discharge the firearm. Somehow, I've never hurt anyone with guns, either. Maybe it's because I was aware that the rifle was loaded with blanks and had the blank adapter installed correctly.
So much for the "four rules", eh? But then again, rules have exceptions and are really no more than general guidelines. It's not like they're the "four laws" or the "four divine commandments" of firearms.
Oh, and a nice anecdote from Black Hawk Down (paraphrased, not quoted):
CO: Why do you have a hot weapon in my chow line?
Delta guy (holding up index finger): This is my safety.
Ol' Badger
Member
A Confession
I am guilty of pointing a weapon at someone once. I was looking over a Winchester Mod. 94 and I did check to make sure the weapon was empty. I was pointing it at the wall and one of the employees walked out the side door into my sights. I pointed the weapon at the ground and said I was sorry for doing it. I felt bad, but live and learn. I hope the guy doesn't hold it against me for doing that. That was the only time it has ever happend to me. OK. Tsk Tsk me guy's!
I am guilty of pointing a weapon at someone once. I was looking over a Winchester Mod. 94 and I did check to make sure the weapon was empty. I was pointing it at the wall and one of the employees walked out the side door into my sights. I pointed the weapon at the ground and said I was sorry for doing it. I felt bad, but live and learn. I hope the guy doesn't hold it against me for doing that. That was the only time it has ever happend to me. OK. Tsk Tsk me guy's!
Is that precisely what you said to him? If so, with that kind of approach/attitude, I wouldn't besurprised if you got your a$$ whupped on a regular basis. What about people who carry guns in fanny packs? When they walk by you, they're pointing at you, and they're LOADED. No you can't see them, but they're pointed at you just the same. Are you gonna search everyone's fanny pack who walks by you and threaten them for "pointing" at you? (shoulder rigs, same story). Just food for thought. I'm not saying the guy shouldn't have been more conscientious if it was a prolonged pointing situation, particularly when handling the gun. I'm just saying (a) it's really unavoidable that SOME guns, SOME times, are going to be pointed at you, at least for brief moments, especially unloaded ones, especially if you hang around at guns stores as you and I do, and especially ones you don't see or don't notice (such as the ones in the gun cases), and (b) a dose of tact in dealing with this scenario would probably serve you better in the future. However, I too would have gotten hot if the pointing was prolonged, and his finger was anywhere in and around the trigger guard. So I can't totally blame you. But a few accidental sweeps while in a gun store, positioning an unloaded gun into a position where's it's not pointing at anyone, in order to then handle it, is acceptable in my view. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it at present.
JimCon, THAT OTOH is a different colored horse. The guy comes in off the street - LEO or not, the action should be OPEN, when bringing any gun into any public place, gun store or otherwise, unless it's your holstered CCW.
JimCon, THAT OTOH is a different colored horse. The guy comes in off the street - LEO or not, the action should be OPEN, when bringing any gun into any public place, gun store or otherwise, unless it's your holstered CCW.
Every reputable gunshop I have ever been in has had either paper targets or animal heads about 9-10' up on the wall for people to point at if they so desire.
My kitchen table dealer conducts all business in his trophy room, so you can pick from the black bear, the elk, the caribou, or like 20+ deer mounts to point your new firearm at. I never asked what would happen if someone accidentily put a hole in one of his trophies, though.
Kharn
My kitchen table dealer conducts all business in his trophy room, so you can pick from the black bear, the elk, the caribou, or like 20+ deer mounts to point your new firearm at. I never asked what would happen if someone accidentily put a hole in one of his trophies, though.
Kharn
Preacherman
Member
Kharn, if you did that, your head would probably mounted up there as the next trophy...
rock jock
Member
Ehh, let's see, the four rules.........the........four.......rules.............hmmm.....I know I've heard these before..........something about guns and uh.......oh yeah, The Four Rules! Here goes:
1. Buy as many guns as you can
2. Shoot them as often as you can
3. Encourage others to do the same
4. Repeat 1-3
Some of the worst offenders are the gun dealers themselves. I couldn't begin to guess how many dealers, or clerks, have pointed a muzzle right at me while verifying that a gun is unloaded. A couple of months ago, a clerk opened a revolver to check it, then snapped it shut and pulled the trigger six times while it was pointed at my belly. I glared at him for a minute, shook my head, and walked away. The next day I went back and talked to his manager (nicely). I didn't want him punished..only educated.
My injured hand has come in handy as a visual aid. I show people my four-fingered hand, and explain to them that the gun I shot myself with was also unloaded .
My injured hand has come in handy as a visual aid. I show people my four-fingered hand, and explain to them that the gun I shot myself with was also unloaded .
Fudgie Ghost
Member
Yeah, people can be a bit much with those "four rules".
Let me tell you a little story. A guy I know well had been on the road for a long time, over 4 hours. He was coming back from a state where he had a CCW. In coming home, he was crossing a state where he (and most humans) don't have CCW. (I don't want to name names, but it rhymes with "I can't see").
Anyway, before crossing into this state, he stops for gas, and while filling up, takes off his pistol, and places in locked container, after first removing the magazine. Because he is at gas station and does not want to "frighten the horses", he does this quickly, too quickly. He forgets to cycle round out of chamber. Forget about violating federal law as he crosses this gun un-friendly state. He gets home. Bleary eyed. Goes up to bedroom with locked case. Opens case. Sees gun without magazine--picks up piece and out of reflex points away and pull trigger--BOOM!. Round digs into laminate nightstand, skids into cell phone, then surelight flashlight, at some time skidding into mousepad (that is used for light and phone), hit's plaster wall, ricochets up into corner of room, before coming to rest at his feet. Moral of the story?
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS CHECK WEAPON AS TO LOADED/UNLOADED WHEN PICKING IT UP!!
I think that's one of the four rules, or a corollary of one anyway. And he will never forget it either. So, once it happens to you, you will never thinK of those who are insistent on following these rules as safety nags again. But you don't have to wait to have such an unfortunate incident--learn from others.
Let me tell you a little story. A guy I know well had been on the road for a long time, over 4 hours. He was coming back from a state where he had a CCW. In coming home, he was crossing a state where he (and most humans) don't have CCW. (I don't want to name names, but it rhymes with "I can't see").
Anyway, before crossing into this state, he stops for gas, and while filling up, takes off his pistol, and places in locked container, after first removing the magazine. Because he is at gas station and does not want to "frighten the horses", he does this quickly, too quickly. He forgets to cycle round out of chamber. Forget about violating federal law as he crosses this gun un-friendly state. He gets home. Bleary eyed. Goes up to bedroom with locked case. Opens case. Sees gun without magazine--picks up piece and out of reflex points away and pull trigger--BOOM!. Round digs into laminate nightstand, skids into cell phone, then surelight flashlight, at some time skidding into mousepad (that is used for light and phone), hit's plaster wall, ricochets up into corner of room, before coming to rest at his feet. Moral of the story?
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS CHECK WEAPON AS TO LOADED/UNLOADED WHEN PICKING IT UP!!
I think that's one of the four rules, or a corollary of one anyway. And he will never forget it either. So, once it happens to you, you will never thinK of those who are insistent on following these rules as safety nags again. But you don't have to wait to have such an unfortunate incident--learn from others.
TheeBadOne
Member
I've walked away from a table quite a few times and come back later because of someone there like you described. That's my usual route, at best I'll try a polite word. Some of the better dealers beat me to it. I spend more time at their tables.
Frankly, I'm tired of all the people who just pay no attention at all to where their muzzle is pointed. It isn't even about "the four rules" its about common freaking sense. I don't like someone pretending to throw knives at me either, or acting like they're going to flick a lighter under my chin. It is plain stupid. Accidental sweep? Sure, it happens. But when they have no clue for great deals of time where its pointed that is no longer accidental, that is pure negligence. My tolerance for it has grown lower and lower. I bring a gun into a store? I ask an employee to remove it from the case and clear it. I've got a newbie at the range? I make certain they are pointing that barrel down range. So I pay people the courtesy I expect. There is almost no room for error here. And certainly, where they are involving me by lasering me, no room for their negligence or my sympathy anymore. Like I said, I'm just tired of it and it seems to be more rampant. Why don't stores put up signs "Don't point guns at people in our store, thank you"? And futo, I'd be surprised if I got my a$$ whooped on a regular basis, too. But your point about fanny packs carries no merit, in my opinion. While some guns may be pointed at any given time, there is a vast difference between that and actively and decidedly pointing it where ever you wish while it is the single object of your attention.
As far as that LEO. I don't care if they know weapons. He shouldn't practice safety to let everyone know he "knows weapons." He should practice it because no one else knows that he "knows weapons."
As far as that LEO. I don't care if they know weapons. He shouldn't practice safety to let everyone know he "knows weapons." He should practice it because no one else knows that he "knows weapons."
How about at the range? I have seen it more than a few times - people down range and some yahoos at the firing line playing around with their gun. If it were my own range I would ask these people to simply leave.
Not long ago at a private conservation club -There was one father apparently trying to teach his son gun safety and as I am downrange I see him handling the rifle an I am PO'd immediately. I tell him when I come back to the firing line "I really appreciate you handling your rifle when I am downrange!" He did not say anything back to me - when someone is so careless to put me in eminent danger I usually do not resort to politeness to get my point across.
Not long ago at a private conservation club -There was one father apparently trying to teach his son gun safety and as I am downrange I see him handling the rifle an I am PO'd immediately. I tell him when I come back to the firing line "I really appreciate you handling your rifle when I am downrange!" He did not say anything back to me - when someone is so careless to put me in eminent danger I usually do not resort to politeness to get my point across.
atek3
Member
Reminds me of the LEO who came in to the engravers place w/ his loaded AR-15 in a case. While uncasing a LOADED gun, he discharged it killing the owner. Then had the gall to claim, as he removed the gun from the case IT fired. Uhhhh, okay. Bushmaster even checked the weapon out and found it to be mechanically in perfect shape.
atek3
atek3
AZLibertarian
Member
I can't fault anyone for firmly stating that a gun pointing at them needs to be pointed elsewhere pronto. Being nice about it might be appropriate too, depending on your personality and your mood that day.
My question is: Why did the salesclerk allow this guy to point it in an unsafe direction? Sure, the greater responsibility lies with the idiot handling the gun, but shouldn't the clerk assume that each customer knows very little about "The 4 Rules"?
My question is: Why did the salesclerk allow this guy to point it in an unsafe direction? Sure, the greater responsibility lies with the idiot handling the gun, but shouldn't the clerk assume that each customer knows very little about "The 4 Rules"?
Mannlicher
Member
aint it wonderful to be politically correct, and polite. I would never be mean or nasty so some bozo that was pointing a gun at me.
I would never be mean or nasty so some bozo that was pointing a gun at me.telomerase
Member
>man, i hate guns pointed at me
Wow, you probably really freak out when you remember that several countries have ICBMs pointed at you!
Wow, you probably really freak out when you remember that several countries have ICBMs pointed at you!
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