Man Jailed for Self-defense...New York, of course
- Thread starter qlajlu
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progunner1957
member
Why any gun owner would live in the socialist cesspool that is New York is beyond me...
At least the grand jury members have some common sesne.
armedpolak
member
progunner1957
progunner1957, it's because it pays well
and that's about it!
i've been in NYC for over two years, and recently decided to move the hell out.
this is just like socialist europe, in poland for example, an eldery lady got 25 for shooting and killing one of two attackers. outlaws are in charge there. my own grandmaa (80-yo) got jumped in the middle of a day, money stolen, and like that wasn't enough, smashed on the head, thrown down the stairs, and kicked so hard while laying on the ground. she eventually died two years later from all the complications of that attack. man, it makes my blood boil when i hear s**t like this! they would have probably jailed my grandma if she shot and killed one of those lowlifes who, in the end, killed her.
progunner1957, it's because it pays well
and that's about it!i've been in NYC for over two years, and recently decided to move the hell out.
this is just like socialist europe, in poland for example, an eldery lady got 25 for shooting and killing one of two attackers. outlaws are in charge there. my own grandmaa (80-yo) got jumped in the middle of a day, money stolen, and like that wasn't enough, smashed on the head, thrown down the stairs, and kicked so hard while laying on the ground. she eventually died two years later from all the complications of that attack. man, it makes my blood boil when i hear s**t like this! they would have probably jailed my grandma if she shot and killed one of those lowlifes who, in the end, killed her.
dishonest thread title
The man was NOT jailed for self-defense, and the article clearly says that. In fact the grand jury refused to indict him for the actual shooting.
He clearly was in violation of NY law by both possessing and carrying the gun. We may not like NY law, but I'd bet he knew what the law was and made a choice to not obey it. There are consequences for not obeying the law. Even bad, unfair, or arguably unconstitutional ones.
The man was NOT jailed for self-defense, and the article clearly says that. In fact the grand jury refused to indict him for the actual shooting.
He clearly was in violation of NY law by both possessing and carrying the gun. We may not like NY law, but I'd bet he knew what the law was and made a choice to not obey it. There are consequences for not obeying the law. Even bad, unfair, or arguably unconstitutional ones.
AirForceShooter
Member
a man that truly believes in:
"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6".
good for him.
Now he needs a jury that has figured it all out and let's him off.
AFS
"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6".
good for him.
Now he needs a jury that has figured it all out and let's him off.
AFS
armoredman
Member
A "fully informed jury" would be good for him, one that knows they can actually throw out the law, as well.
The_Shootist
Member
Jury?
Couldn't a case be made for NY law violating his Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights?
Couldn't a case be made for NY law violating his Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights?
Car Knocker
Member
Why would that be? New York allows the possession and carrying of handguns, with a license, much like several other states.
qlajlu
Member
A trick learned from the left-leaning press to get attention. It is pathetic that so many of our rights has been legislated out of existence. Means of self-defense should NOT have been one of them. Besides, the blog I was reading that led me to this article also used that line. The blog can be found here.ilbob said:
steveracer
Member
People live there for a reason.
NY is really a beautiful place, and many millions have come to realize this. I applaud the folks there who are carrying on the fight for their right to bear arms. I don't like the sentiment that gun owners should get out of a place that's got bad laws. I would hope that, should laws like them get passed anywhere else, they'd be fought tooth and nail. My family is part of that fight in NY now, just as I would be if the laws here in VA were bad.
"Get out", although the easy way, is not a solution to NY state's problems. "It's your home, so fix it" is better. My roof leaked, but I didn't move out of my house. I fixed it.
NY is really a beautiful place, and many millions have come to realize this. I applaud the folks there who are carrying on the fight for their right to bear arms. I don't like the sentiment that gun owners should get out of a place that's got bad laws. I would hope that, should laws like them get passed anywhere else, they'd be fought tooth and nail. My family is part of that fight in NY now, just as I would be if the laws here in VA were bad.
"Get out", although the easy way, is not a solution to NY state's problems. "It's your home, so fix it" is better. My roof leaked, but I didn't move out of my house. I fixed it.
freedom and guns
member
It would seem that way. State law says that all handguns have to be licensed and, once you get that license, you can also ccw, HOWEVER the state makes up for it by "regulating" "assault weapons", making you pay alot of cash for a pistol licensce, putting restrictions on the way they are sold, and letting every single little county, city, and local government make their gun laws as stringent as they want to, even worse than the state's. The only way to buy, "posses", or ccw a handgun without a permit is to be a peace officer ( after you retire you have to sell your handguns or pay money for a license for every handgun you own) or a gang member. This http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=NY isn't the only reason I know this, don't ask me the other.
On one hand I like the idea that the jury is the people's representative in the justice system (oooh! Collectivist! Statist! oooh! 
) On the other hand, if a jury isn't responsible about this you get people acquitting or convicting based on something other than the facts and the law such as ethnicity, religion or "I don't care what the law says. She was dressed like a slut."
) On the other hand, if a jury isn't responsible about this you get people acquitting or convicting based on something other than the facts and the law such as ethnicity, religion or "I don't care what the law says. She was dressed like a slut."HankB
Member
In civilized parts of the nation, reporting incidents like this to the authorities makes sense.
BUT . . . based only on the story as presented, and given the location (New York - Rochester?) Stuart D. Miles may have been better off making himself scarce . . . given that the bad guy had probably "cased" the area and determined there was no cop around to catch him, then there was probably no cop around to catch Miles, either.
And if he ditched the gun, proving possession would have been much harder.
BUT . . . based only on the story as presented, and given the location (New York - Rochester?) Stuart D. Miles may have been better off making himself scarce . . . given that the bad guy had probably "cased" the area and determined there was no cop around to catch him, then there was probably no cop around to catch Miles, either.
And if he ditched the gun, proving possession would have been much harder.
USSR
Member
Uhhh, not quite. While it is a state law, the actual pistol permit is issued by a judge in each county. And, each county judge seems to set his own rules/limitations on the permits he issues. Many of the county judges will issue the permits without a CCW provision, unless you own a business and claim to be making large cash deposits of business receipts. And, to top it all off, even if your county judge issues you a permit with a CCW provision, you are prohibited from carrying in NYC should you travel there. So, you can carry concealed in a safe, rural part of the state where you live, but if you go into a crime infested part of the state (NYC), you are prohibited from carrying. Now how smart is that?
Don
Rumble
Member
I have heard that in some states, actually having to use a weapon in self-defense can be an affirmative defense against weapons charges (I think maybe Maryland?)--I guess that's not the case in New York. Anybody out there able to enlighten me?
DragonFire
Member
I live in one of the small towns outside of Rochester. I own pistols, shotguns and rifles, even a couple of "assault rifles".
It cost me about $100 and a 3 month wait to get my original pistol permit. Now when I want to add a new gun to my permit, it costs me $3 and about 6 days of waiting. Buying a long gun from a store/dealer requires an additional 5 minutes while the NICS check is called in.
I have not had one person hassle me about my permit or carrying (except some of my own family). I haven't wanted a gun, or accesssory that I couldn't have (though hi-cap mags still run alot higher here than across the border in PA).
So NY state can be quite different from NY city. It's neither a socialistic hell-hole, nor a marxist state. It's not paradise, but it not what most outsiders think it is either.
I agree with tellner, I rather not see the time comes when the "law" is whatever 12 random people want it to be. If you don't agree with a law, fight to get it changed, but until it is, you have to obey it, or live with the consequences if you get caught.
I feel sorry that the guy, but he was carrying illegally. It may be more of a hassle than it should be, but it is possible for people to get CCW permits in Rochester.
A majority of the time, when crimes like this occur in the city, it comes out later the "innocent" victim wasn't so innocent. If they are keeping him without bail, and talking about 15 years for this, I would guess that there's more to this and a random mugging.
It cost me about $100 and a 3 month wait to get my original pistol permit. Now when I want to add a new gun to my permit, it costs me $3 and about 6 days of waiting. Buying a long gun from a store/dealer requires an additional 5 minutes while the NICS check is called in.
I have not had one person hassle me about my permit or carrying (except some of my own family). I haven't wanted a gun, or accesssory that I couldn't have (though hi-cap mags still run alot higher here than across the border in PA).
So NY state can be quite different from NY city. It's neither a socialistic hell-hole, nor a marxist state. It's not paradise, but it not what most outsiders think it is either.
I agree with tellner, I rather not see the time comes when the "law" is whatever 12 random people want it to be. If you don't agree with a law, fight to get it changed, but until it is, you have to obey it, or live with the consequences if you get caught.
I feel sorry that the guy, but he was carrying illegally. It may be more of a hassle than it should be, but it is possible for people to get CCW permits in Rochester.
A majority of the time, when crimes like this occur in the city, it comes out later the "innocent" victim wasn't so innocent. If they are keeping him without bail, and talking about 15 years for this, I would guess that there's more to this and a random mugging.
armedpolak
member
DragonFire
DragonFire, you shouldn't need a PERMIT !!!
It's your GOD, not Judge, given right !!!
And BTW, good luck getting a CCW in NYC.
And one more thing. Yes, it is a socialist hell-hole!
DragonFire, you shouldn't need a PERMIT !!!
It's your GOD, not Judge, given right !!!
And BTW, good luck getting a CCW in NYC.
And one more thing. Yes, it is a socialist hell-hole!
gunsmith
member
I am a native New Yorker
NYC born, & NYC makes CA (even Frisco/bezerkely) seem like a bastion of common sense.
Up state NY is beautifull, I would love to visit and camp out...but untill I either become LE or we gunnies win a huge legal victory in SCOTUS I doubt I will.
Even with my NV ccw I would be in violation of the law by bringing my glock with me to (say) Lake George
NYC born, & NYC makes CA (even Frisco/bezerkely) seem like a bastion of common sense.
Up state NY is beautifull, I would love to visit and camp out...but untill I either become LE or we gunnies win a huge legal victory in SCOTUS I doubt I will.
Even with my NV ccw I would be in violation of the law by bringing my glock with me to (say) Lake George
I hate that state, I hate that state, I hate that state. Every time I drive through it on the way to see family in the midwest, I get p***ed thinking about the firearm laws. With leaders like Hillary and Bloomberg what should we expect. :banghead:
Every time I drive through it on the way to see family in the midwest, I get p***ed thinking about the firearm laws. With leaders like Hillary and Bloomberg what should we expect. :banghead:Limeyfellow
Member
In the most famous socialist states in Europe they tend to have less gun laws than the US. Good examples being the likes of Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Finland and so on. Socialism has nothing much to do with firearms and different branches of it have far different rules on the role of firearms, many believing its essential for the security of the state and to prevent the manipulation by the few over the masses.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
There are, indeed, ugly consequences for not complying with patently unjust, unconstititional laws. Nobody ever said justice prevails all the time.
armedpolak
member
Limeyfellow
Limeyfellow, yes, that's nice!
Except... have you ever lived in socialism? Comunism? Did you ever see much less experience a governemnt actually IMPLEMENTING the socialist ideas? Well I have!
How do you assume people "agree" to be equalized in the name of social fairness? How do you think the rich "agree" to have their money taken away and their private posessions and businesses taken over by the noble government? How do intelectual elites agree to be broght down to a level of a common farmer and discredited for their thoughs? Ever asked yourself that???
So yes, gun control has a lot to do with socialism. I dare to say one couldn't exist past the books without the other!
Limeyfellow, yes, that's nice!
Except... have you ever lived in socialism? Comunism? Did you ever see much less experience a governemnt actually IMPLEMENTING the socialist ideas? Well I have
!How do you assume people "agree" to be equalized in the name of social fairness? How do you think the rich "agree" to have their money taken away and their private posessions and businesses taken over by the noble government? How do intelectual elites agree to be broght down to a level of a common farmer and discredited for their thoughs? Ever asked yourself that???
So yes, gun control has a lot to do with socialism. I dare to say one couldn't exist past the books without the other!
DragonFire
Member
armpolak said
Not quite. It's a right given to us by the Constitution. Apparently even the framers of the Constitution recognzied the fact that this right wasn't a "given" otherwise they wouldn't have felt the need to spell it out.
I need a permit to drive a car, I need to register to vote, and license to even get married. I can live with the fact that I need a permit to own a handgun.
No, I don't agree with all the gun laws, or all the hoops to jump through to get a permit, but I do agree with the fact that not everyone should be able to own or carry a gun. The fact the some politicians/judges/cities corrupt the process doesn't necessarily mean that there should be no regulations or restrictions.
Not quite. It's a right given to us by the Constitution. Apparently even the framers of the Constitution recognzied the fact that this right wasn't a "given" otherwise they wouldn't have felt the need to spell it out.
I need a permit to drive a car, I need to register to vote, and license to even get married. I can live with the fact that I need a permit to own a handgun.
No, I don't agree with all the gun laws, or all the hoops to jump through to get a permit, but I do agree with the fact that not everyone should be able to own or carry a gun. The fact the some politicians/judges/cities corrupt the process doesn't necessarily mean that there should be no regulations or restrictions.
armedpolak
member
DragonFire
So who gets to decide? Judge? Sherif? What makes them better than, say, you or me? Any sort of discresion will always lead to corruption. Plus you're entering a slippery slope. Why do you think that not everyone should be able to buy or carry? Do you think they are not responsible enough? Are you? Who decided for you? Some judge who doesn't even know you?
And no, I don't think we get rights from constitution... government does, and the 2nd, the way I understand it, prohibits government from stopping you from getting a gun. You wanna read a constitution that gives the rights to people, read the recently rejected EU constitution... 500 pages!!!
P.S. "I need a permit to drive a car, I need to register to vote, and license to even get married. I can live with the fact that I need a permit to own a handgun." -> your life is over regulated by other human beings. That is wrong !!! That is not TRUE FREEDOM !!!
So who gets to decide? Judge? Sherif? What makes them better than, say, you or me? Any sort of discresion will always lead to corruption. Plus you're entering a slippery slope. Why do you think that not everyone should be able to buy or carry? Do you think they are not responsible enough? Are you? Who decided for you? Some judge who doesn't even know you?
And no, I don't think we get rights from constitution... government does, and the 2nd, the way I understand it, prohibits government from stopping you from getting a gun. You wanna read a constitution that gives the rights to people, read the recently rejected EU constitution... 500 pages!!!
P.S. "I need a permit to drive a car, I need to register to vote, and license to even get married. I can live with the fact that I need a permit to own a handgun." -> your life is over regulated by other human beings. That is wrong !!! That is not TRUE FREEDOM !!!
cbsbyte
Member
People here are not getting through there heads that Mr. Miles was carrying an illegal firearm in NY. He plainly broke the law the state firearm laws. People might not agree with the laws, but that is what they are in NY. Mr. Miles was given a break, the Grand Jury DID NOT find him liable for the shooting. Which was deemed justifilable under the situation. Had it happen in Texas (or any other state that mandates a LTC), wouldn't he also be charged for not having the proper license to carry?
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