Man with assault rifle joins crowds outside president's Phoenix venue

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People at a rally about healthcare and see the guy with a AR-15 have a good probability to think that he is armed to prevent healthcare being addressed,not there to champion the 2nd amendment.
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I heard what the guy said. He said, "In America, people have the ability to fight back and resist." He also says, "I'm absolutely totally against health care in this way, in this manner. Stealing it from people, I don't think that's appropriate."

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/p...oenix-speech-with/q4OeoN6qZU-efcy1Zoq7xQ.cspx

So, it's one of the following: (1) the guy just got zapped in from Mars and doesn't know where he is, (2) he's talking specifically about showing the government that we can physically fight back against the government on this health care bill, or (3) his adrenaline is pumping so hard that he doesn't fully know what he's saying. Any one of these reasons puts him at the bottom of the class.
 
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quote"This is conditioning the public to understand that bearing arms is not a crime."


There are better ways to do so.Like I said a few people are going to take it as those that disagree with them on health care are going to try to intimidate them.They are going to see it as you using a right to bear arms to disrupt their right to the 1st amendment and that you are sending a round about threatening message to a elected administration if they don't give in to the health care debate.
 
It's interesting to see what those who have supported this man's behavior have said.

Let me ask a question then:

What movement was this man trying to pursue that required him to stand in such a venue as he did with a semi-automatic rifle? One that says we should openly carry AR-15s in the President's vicinity just because the 2-A allows us to?

Give me a break. Have some common sense and realize that there is no practical reason this man should've carried a weapon the way he did in such a location. We don't need anyone out there in meetings looking out for the POTUS, that's what the Secret Service is for.

Why didn't he openly carry this in a place where a gun would be useful? Like a city street perhaps?

Again, this situation poses itself as just another attempt to do something machismo under the guise of "The 2-A Movement". Publicity stunts and testosterone galore. Earlier people drew analogies to this and the Wild West. While some people denounced those statements, I don't think they are off the mark.

Some people need to just sit the hell down and quit making gun-owners out there look like morons who preach about the Bill of Rights yet have no understanding of what the underlying ideas of common sense or practicality entail.

What people forget about this gun debate is that convincing your opponent to agree with your point of view means creating an argument that is both valid and sound. I haven't seen an ounce of that in this situation whatsoever.

I'm guessing that's because nowadays the only thing people care about and will rally behind is someone who has the balls to go out in public and sling their long gun on their shoulders without having any real purpose for it.
 
Some people need to just sit the hell down and quit making gun-owners out there look like morons who preach about the Bill of Rights yet have no understanding of what the underlying ideas of common sense or practicality entail.
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The guy did nothing illegal and was in no way menacing or threatening.

Maybe the Media should
just sit the hell down and quit making
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a big deal out of nothing.
 
Oh the pain! You sound just like my wife!Nag,nag,nag! She can't put up with me.

She still loves you I'm sure:D



Can't wait for the new "Johnny Dollar" restrictions to be set in force.
I always wanted to be a hit on Broadway.

hopefully it is a show that never gets a opening


But once we clear the airwaves of your kind of thinking I feel the country will be a much better place.You're a fossil getting way past your time.Extinction by the next generation,hopefully.Philosophy wise,not mortally you understand! Don't want any misunderstanding there.No anarchy!We'll do it by ballot.

I actually voted Ron Paul,the ones who are a fossil are the ones who vote party loyality no matter what,and refuse to listen to the other side to maybe have some respect for them,bringing a open gun to show it off at a healthcare rally may make some think you don't respect their right to voice their opinion on healthcare and live with the outcome,they may think you will force them to give up their rights they used at the ballot box,not very effective in getting them to support your rights is it?:cool:


How does Mrs. lionking put up with you,BTW?

like my guns and guitars,one is not enough:cool:
 
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If supposed "pro 2nd Ammendment" folks don't get it how the hell are the antis ever going to let up. Some of these posts are very anti and these posts are from folks who supposedly enjoy the shooting sports.
 
"Further, if he did, I believe he would be stopped, questioned and probably arrested, even if legal in Arizon"

JakeMccoy,
Don't live in AZ do you? I lived there for several years, and the cops are very aware that it is legal. Hell, most cops asked what it was on my hip and what I was shooting. Of all the cops I met, I would bet that he would have gotten questions as to make and model, how well it shoots, how reliable it was, and how he liked it(in polite conversation) instead of arrested. I had conversations with cops about what was on my hip and what was on theirs all the time in grocery stores. He might have had a problem in Phoenix or Tucson, but everywhere else is pretty much a go ahead.

"
By the way, it does matter how close. If he was within, say, 20 feet of the President, then we'd be having a different discussion..."

Nope, if he started to shoulder that weapon, he would be dead. If he kept it on the sling, around his back.... then he would probably live. As long as the SS thought he had a chance to shooting, they would act permanently and lethally. Distance is subjective of the secret service member behind the trigger and cannot be narrowed down to any arbitrary distance. I expect that even at 200y, he would be dead if he decided to move either of his weapons to an offensive position.
 
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Don't live in AZ do you?
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Poor fella is from California you can't even own a regular Ar 15 over there. Just shows you how how different certain areas of our great nation feels about guns in general. Arizona neighbors California and in that short distance the difference in gun laws are of that of a free country and a communist regime.
 
The only problem I have with that guy open carrying at the event is that there was not more people doing the same thing,.
As jakemccoy noted, this is exactly the sort of stunt that invites anti-gun legislation. Now that there have been two of these incidents reported in the past couple of weeks, we will likely see legislative proposals to prohibit weapons within xxx feet of the president. From there, it's easily extended to judges, legislators, you name it. All that this clown has done is to singlehandedly jeopardize all our rights. The gains we have made are extremely fragile, and this guy is creating a giant opening for the antis.

He has accomplished nothing positive.
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the biggest pile I have ever seen on this forum.
 
What good is a right when you're afraid to exercise it?

To those who are afraid that carrying a rifle to a political rally will somehow result in "retaliation" by Congress via legislation, I say to thee: The problem is not with the carrying of a rifle, but with the legislators who attempt to stigmatize such a practice. So instead of complaining that "he's going to ruin it for the rest of us," just write or call your congresscritters in the event that any such legislative proposal does see the light of day.
 
As has been pointed out, the Black Panthers did exactly what these protesters are doing, and Governor Ronald Reagan ended up signing gun control into law as a direct result.

Wikipedia:

From the beginning the Black Panther Party's focus on militancy came with a reputation for violence. They often took advantage of a California law which permitted carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun as long as it was publicly displayed and pointed at no one.[42] Carrying weapons openly and making threats against police officers, for example, chants like "The Revolution has co-ome, it's time to pick up the gu-un. Off the pigs!",[43] helped create the Panthers' reputation as a violent organization. The greater part of the reputation was earned in particular incidents such as the following.

On May 2, 1967, the California State Assembly Committee on Criminal Procedure was scheduled to convene to discuss what was known as the "Mulford Act", which would ban public displays of loaded firearms. Cleaver and Newton put together a plan to send a group of about 30 Panthers led by Seale from Oakland to Sacramento to protest the bill. The group entered the assembly carrying their weapons, an incident which was widely publicized, and which prompted police to arrest Seale and five others. The group pled guilty to misdemeanor charges of disrupting a legislative session.[45]
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The call to violence then: "It's time to pick up the gun"

The call to violence today: "It's time to refresh the tree of liberty"

If one is sane, it should be assumed that Americans are not going to stand for this. What's going on right now is an extremely real threat to gun rights, not to mention an affront to democracy. The introduction of intimidating tactics using displayed weapons into political dialogue was wrong when the Panthers did it, and it's wrong now.

Don't agree? You're in the minority, and if this continues you will certainly discover that.
 
Regarding how close he got to the POTUS, CNN mentioned that wherever the President is that area is now a Federal Area, and firearms are not allowed there. So this guy (and the dozen others that reportedly joined him) were nowhere near Obama. There were some great quotes in the CNN Story from officials.
 
As I stated earlier, Alan Gottlieb does not agree with what this guy did (even though Gottlieb recognizes it's legal). Look up Gottlieb. Not speaking to any particular person, you will sound like nothing more than an ignorant hick if you call Gottlieb anti-gun. I'm trying to help us out as a whole, really.

I have to wonder about people who have one track minds when it comes to gun issues. It seems like they want sudden gun control laws to be passed just so that they can see some chaos.
 
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I have to wonder about people who have one track minds when it comes to gun issues. It seems like they want sudden gun control laws to be passed just so that they can see some chaos.
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BINGO

I have seen many gun owners talk up imaginary gun confiscation schemes, assume there are conspiracies when there are not, rant and rave how the end of the world is near. I am wholeheartedly convinced that there is most definitely a group of gun owners who are not just preparing, but hoping for some kind of chaos zombie apocalypse so they can run around and fulfill their mad max fantasy.
 
There is no need in the 21st century to be walking around with a gun on the hip, frightening other people. That's just a desire to "play cowboys": pathetic.
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It's not cowboys. It's real life. Folks, the handguns are your every day carry tools. Many people in this country are feeling like we're going to go down the tubes and quick. The economy has taken a dive and a very large number of people feel that the country is moving towards some form of totalitarianism or socialism and that if we ever reach that point, we will never recover.

Can I ask, what the hell some of you people think ARs and AKs are for? They're for more than just shooting targets at the range folks. Did some of you honestly think that everyone who asked "what gun for SHTF" was merely screwing around? Do you know why some of this is scary to some people? Because the S really is about to HTF. It's the real deal ladies and gents.

I wouldn't worry about the Secret Service accidentally shooting someone either. I have a feeling that that would a "shot heard round the world".

If there was any time and place to open carry, this is it.
 
Prince Yamoto, carrying a weapon around is not going to do anything about our government passing laws that move us closer to "totalitarianism or socialism", that is what your phone, pen, and paper are for. And I submit that the S is nowhere near HTF, maybe if we were in Guatemala or Iran that would be a big concern, but the US is not about to break out in a revolution. When I carry it is because I am concerned about my personal safety, not for protection from a gestapo.

This guy did a good job of bringing OC into the public light in a legal manner, not everyone will agree that it was a good idea, but at some people learned that it's legal to carry a weapon in public.
 
peakbagger46 said:
Hmmm..... When Obama went to our jurisdiction, we were told to leave our issued long guns at home. Actually, we were told that showing up in uniform with a rifle had the potential to be instantly fatal via a Secret Service sniper. I do have some thoughts on Obama's utalization of the Secret Service, and let me just say it seems "different" from past presidents.

That guy had some big ones, and I image he spent a good deal of his day in someone's crosshairs.

"Is that a red dot on your forehead, or did you become a Hindu?"
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Hmmm, I almost wonder if that is just due to variations within that administrations of local departments? When Obama was around here for the convention last year (he wasn't yet president) we were told to have our patrol rifles with us. Granted, the rifles were in the vehicle as a "just in case" thing, and weren't actually deployed during that week. I never really had any close interaction with Obama, but did spend a bit of time around Bill and Hillary (same instructions then).


More to the subject of this thread, I sure wouldn't have been the guy carrying the rifle around near that event. Put simply, if he thought he could see the president while carrying his rifle, he could also be damn sure that someone else with a rifle was seeing him "up close and personal".
 
coloradokevin said:
I don't know if this link has been posted yet or not, given that I didn't read all ten pages worth of posts... But, this CNN video just gives you some idea of what the media thinks about gun ownership:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...ew#cnnSTCVideo
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CNN is ridiculous :p

And I don't really like how they stressed that it was Obama (woop-dee-doo) and not a different president. What was the point of that?
 
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