Managers 'petrified' by robbery training session

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MacPelto

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WOW! Comments, anyone? (lawsuit, anyone?)




http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1638&u_sid=940982


Published Tuesday
December 9, 2003

Managers 'petrified' by robbery training session

BY DAVID HENDEE



WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER

Hugging the floor of the convenience store and cradling her head in her arms, Kristin Johnson waited to hear the click of the trigger.

One image seared her mind: Norfolk, Neb., where five people were killed last year in a bank massacre.

"My first thought was, 'Oh, my God, I am going to die.'"

But the terrorized Johnson wasn't physically injured. She and six other managers were unknowing participants in an armed-robbery training session organized by their employer, the Lincoln-based Gas 'N Shop convenience stores.

The episode took only seconds to unfold Nov. 14 at the company store in Schuyler, Neb., where the managers gathered for one of their periodic meetings. Johnson said she still has panic attacks and headaches because of the incident and quit her job because of the anxiety.

"I can't do this anymore - wondering what's coming in when you hear the doorbell," Johnson said.

Johnson, who would have marked her second anniversary next month with Gas 'N Shop, said the incident unnecessarily traumatized her and could have ended in disaster if a hunter or other armed passer-by intervened.

Gas 'N Shop executives were not available for comment Monday. Dorothy Bockoven, the company attorney, had no comment beyond saying: "This is an internal training matter and not for public comment."

Gas 'N Shop Inc. operates about 70 gasoline station-convenience stores in Nebraska. Last year, the company had 530 employees and revenue of $107.6 million.

Schuyler Police Chief Leonard Hilter, whose department provided two officers to pose as the bandits, declined to comment.

Nebraska State Patrol Major Bryan Tuma said reality-based training is a widely accepted practice by law enforcement agencies.

"People react in situations the way they are trained," Tuma said. He said he was commenting generally and not on the Schuyler episode.

Johnson said that she assumed the managers' meeting last month would be about hiring and other "simple things."

Four of the 11 managers and supervisors at the Schuyler store that morning knew in advance of the bogus holdup.

One was the Schuyler manager, who was told by police not to load a video tape into the surveillance-camera system. The other was the Norfolk manager, whose store was the site of a killing in 1995.

Johnson described the Schuyler incident this way:

"We were just chit-chatting, waiting for a manager who was late, and these two guys come running into the store. One yelled, 'Get down on the floor! Get down on the floor!' He had a shotgun. . . .

"I immediately hit the floor. He started yelling for our purses."

Johnson's purse was on the table. "I was petrified."

A shotgun-toting man wearing jeans, a dark stocking cap and a hooded gray sweatshirt stood over Johnson and 10 colleagues.

Johnson's mind raced. "I figured that they were going to kill us just like those other guys did to the people at the bank in Norfolk. I lay there and thought to myself that I was never going to see my husband and children again. I thought of my daughter and how attached she is to me. I thought I'd never see my son graduate."

About 30 seconds later, the gunmen left, and the managers locked the door and dialed 911.

"I didn't know if I was going to puke or pass out," Johnson said.

A uniformed Schuyler police officer, who apparently learned of the ruse only minutes earlier, soon arrived and had the victims describe the gunmen.

Then the gunmen returned and displayed their police badges.

The managers were told that the guns were not loaded and that the exercise was to see how they would react.

"I heard very little of what they said," Johnson said. "I was angry; I was just glaring. They told me to get over it."

Johnson said she couldn't bring herself to go to work the following Monday because of anxiety. She worked a few hours Tuesday and quit.

Johnson, who has been the victim of "grab-and-run" robbers who take beer or soft drinks, said Gas 'N Shop policy is for employees not to resist robbers.
 
so what happens when they do that to a group that has a person CCW'ing, and the 'simulated' robbers wind up dead?
 
Johnson, who would have marked her second anniversary next month with Gas 'N Shop, said the incident unnecessarily traumatized her and could have ended in disaster if a hunter or other armed passer-by intervened.

No ????. The idiocy of the people who approved this 'plan' can not be described in words.

If I ever worked at a gas station or anywhere else, and was involved in an armed robbery where I felt my life was in such imminent danger, 'company policy' would be the VERY VERY LAST thing on my mind.

This article really has me fuming.:fire:
 
This is absolutely insane.

spacemanspiff wrote:so what happens when they do that to a group that has a person CCW'ing,
I'm sure that's what all of us are thinking... "glad we weren't there while packing" :banghead:
 
Why are we swimming in litigation? Morons like this.

If it happened as reported, at very least, the safety officer for the training ought to be facing some kind of disicplinary action. Any training involving firearms, particularly any force on force where they are getting pointed at people has to have someone with whom responsibility for safety resides. Using unwilling and unaware "volunteers" is asking to get someone killed (other than the obvious ethical and legal issues). How many of us have known someone who worked at a quick shop who carried in violation of law or policy? What could have very easily happened in this case?
 
I can't believe how incredibly stupid this was. What was the point of the exercise? They didn't seem to be "training" the employees to react in any certain way, all they did was scare them and see how they'd react. What's the use of stessfull training if you aren't trying to impart new skills?

The potential for tragedy here was incredibly high.
 
Schuyler Police Chief Leonard Hilter, whose department provided two officers to pose as the bandits, declined to comment.

Nebraska State Patrol Major Bryan Tuma said reality-based training is a widely accepted practice by law enforcement agencies.

.....

Four of the 11 managers and supervisors at the Schuyler store that morning knew in advance of the bogus holdup.

One was the Schuyler manager, who was told by police not to load a video tape into the surveillance-camera system.

.....

Then the gunmen returned and displayed their police badges.



so what happens when they do that to a group that has a person CCW'ing, and the 'simulated' robbers wind up dead?

Charged, as a cop killer.
 
Stupidity at all levels....

I sense major lawsuit here: Mental distress/anguish , post-traumatic stress related issues and that's from the employees.

I did not note if customers were also in the store at the time of the incident. As previous threads noted - imagine if a CCW'r were there and reacted accordingly:mad:
 
"People react in situations the way they are trained," Tuma said.

Yep. I usually train for 2 COM 1 Head.

Sometimes I train with 2 targets - 2 COM 2 COM 1 HEAD 1 HEAD.

If the police shoot people with toy guns (and I fully support that) because they feel threatened and can't tell the difference, then how am I wrong by firing at someone with a real shotgun if I feel threatened? I can't tell it's not loaded.

They're training these people to be sheeple.
 
This is so wrong on so many levels. Completely outrageous.

If the police shoot people with toy guns (and I fully support that) because they feel threatened and can't tell the difference, then how am I wrong by firing at someone with a real shotgun if I feel threatened?


^indeed.
 
No legal CCW in NE.
Off Duty Lincoln Cop/Sheriff Deputy or State Trooper buying some milk?
They could've had a good laugh over it later at the donut shop, right?
Adios
 
Well - I shouldn't waste bandwidth repeating what others have said already but .......

This is all but unbelievable <wears incredulity hat> ........ are these people really serious??!!:rolleyes: So - what if an employee happened to have a ''bad heart'' ... and suffered a heart attack thru stress and fear? It's happened before.

Geez ...... are these dumba$$es actually for real?!

More to the point - is the report straight up and for real .. I have an awful hard time believing this!
 
When I was about 19, my friend's brother was working in a Seven-Eleven(or some other similar convenience store) and was robbed... almost. The would be robber pointed a real, loaded shotgun at him and it really ticked my friend's brother off, he knocked the gun out of his hands and beat the robber within an inch of his life, still unconscious when they loaded him in the ambulance.

I wonder what would have happened if my friend's brother's situation had happened in this training exercise. I wonder if the police officers would just "get over it".

I don't think that the police should have been involved in this beyond being notified of the training exercise, and maybe posting a plainclothes officer outside to make sure that some good samaratin doesn't run in with a gun to save the day. I think that the local PD just opened themselves up for a lawsuit by being so directly involved in this.
 
Oh yea! I see a 6 figure law suit coming out of this. It's a good thing there wasn't an off duty officer in there at the time that didn't know it was all a ruse. If it were me.......I would sue the crap out of them for pulling such a stupid stunt, then I would file a formal complaint on the two officers that were acting as the robbers. Acting or not they can still get in trouble for scaring the crap out of people like that, waving shotguns around, yelling at people to "Get on the ground!" I would like to hear what the State Police has to say after several complaints and law suits are files.
 
Not only stupid, but illegal.
Assault with a deadly weapon...placing a person in reasonable fear of harm. At least here.
 
Holy crap...

Now, we THR'ers tend to be a fairly paranoid group and play out a lot of "What If" scnearios but this is one that I actually HAVE thought of.

Until recently I had been working for a company that was rather "nanny"-ish to it's employees. Getting a little bored one day as a new employee I decided to read up on official procedures for this and that and I came across our bomb-threat scenario drill. It said do not call the cops, call the local security office. Seriously. Don't alert anybody, call the downtown office (they can be there in 20-30 minutes) and they'll bring in dogs. What kind of horse crap is that? No CCW AND this combined lead me to beleive that the above scenario isn't really that far out of the question to see if we'd react according to protocol if something like that happened.

Everybody involved should be darned glad they just had sheeple in the room. We all know that. The "armed' men couldn't deploy deadly force but the victims didn't know that. A guy with a 3 inch folder and some guts would have caused serious damage... if there was something like a large lamp or coat rack in the room somebody could have been beaten to death.

Trying something like this on your employees is a REALLY bad idea! Scaring somebody to the point where they fear they're going to die and then telling them it's a joke sets you up for a pretty good pummeling if somebody in the room has a bit of a temper.

That's just insane. At least I know I'm not nuts for thinking it could happen.
 
Accepted practice huh? Try that in NYC and the lawyers will be forming a conga line around the block. Not to mention the BMW salesmen will be doing the Macarena anticipating all the newly rich.:rolleyes:
 
I imagine that there will be several somewhat traumatized, but set for life former managers there as soon as a few good lawyers are called...
 
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