Mare's leg type guns- why?

[CraigC]

While I agree about the practicality of a mare's leg in today's trapping world, I still will argue about putting down what's in your trap. Whenever the wolf is declassified(off and on) here in Wisconsin, trapping has been and still is a very viable method of taking them. Beating them to death in a leg hold trap with a stick would be even more impractical that using a Mare's leg. It could also get you a charge of animal cruelty if it became known. Every "Alaska" show I see where the personalities have a wolf, or a lynx or a wolverine in their leghold trap......that animal gets shot. Saving ammo is probably not the priority as much as saving your hand/fingers.

But the context is a professional fur trapper trapping fur-bearers 100yrs ago or more. Not modern folks who do it because they want to. I'm in a number of trapping groups online and none use a mare's leg, or any centerfire. Most use a .22 pistol or rifle but only for coyotes. Fur bearers are always DOA.

 

[Jim Watson]

Back then the Treasury classified it as a machine gun, Seriously? I can see them doing that today, but I thought they were smarter back then.

Not a machine gun, a Short Barreled Rifle, because it was made by cutting down a rifle below 16/26. The new ones are built from scratch and are "pistols."

Remember Shotgun Slade with Scott Brady

Marlin Model 90 combination O/U, wasn't it?

Was "Trapper" a Winchester catalog name for 14-15" lever actions or is that one of those made up collector names?

 

[Eutycus]

Notice the ? in my reply. It was not me calling the Mare's Leg a machine gun. That was done in the link that was provided. According to that link, the Treasury (BATF) classified it as a machine gun.I was questioning the "smarts" of Treasury agents for that classification.

 

[Kleanbore]

That leaves the question- what exactly are these things designed for?

Toys.

I've always wondered "why" to Mare's Leg type guns as well.

Steve McQueen came up with the idea. He needed a "gimmick" for a new Western, and he had a metal fabricator modify an 1892 Winchester rifle. The gun was not operable. Because of the show, "mare's leg" guns were sold.

it is very impractical.

It is indeed. Small mag capacity, terrible ergonomics... Steve did fire an operable prototype, which was an NFA item, once, and as I recall, he said he would never do it again.

They are not new just revived and back in the old day's (1800s) trappers used them to kill live game in their traps.

Where did that idea come from?

In 1904 Winchester made a 15″-barreled Model ‘92 Trapper as verified by Cody Firearms Museum records. In 65 to 70 percent condition, it is easily worth $8,000.

Different gun entirely. The short carbines sold by Winchester, which came to be called "Trappers", had full buttstocks

Was "Trapper" a Winchester catalog name for 14-15" lever actions or is that one of those made up collector names?

The latter.

 

[Chief TC]

You have to remember that this is a show, based on a video game, with a huge following.

Reality has nothing to do with it, just sit back, enjoy and go along for the ride.

Fallout (American TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 1208192

"The Ghoul" carries a mares leg on his back. The gun he carries in a holster is a 12 ga. hand cannon.

View attachment 1208195

I'll take the hand cannon. Love the show and Walter Scoggins is perfect for the part. As everyone else said, mare's leg was just a TV thing. In a gun magazine article, the author wrote the abomination was the worst features of a pistol and rifle.

 

[halfmoonclip]

They are not new just revived and back in the old day's (1800s) trappers used them to kill live game in their traps.

Short barreled lever guns are generically referred to as "trappers". They don't have the short stock of the Mare's Leg.
Shorter barreled lever guns weren't that uncommon before the '35 National Firearms Act, that also regulated silencers and full auto arms. The assumption was that a trapper could secure the game with one hand, and dispatch the critter, one handed, with the short rifle. How much of this actually happened I know not, but it is the name still used.
IIRC, some had 12", or shorter, barrels. How the Feds, in their wisdom, decreed a minimum16" barrel for rifles/18" for shotguns...well, who knows.
Keep in mind, with the Mare's Leg, that the current crop of 'pistols', sometimes sold with a brace, were a workaround for selling semi-auto sub guns. Like the ML, they look badass, but aren't good for much.
Moon

 

[Bazoo]

I seriously doubt any 19th century trapper wasted a bullet on trapped critters.

Not unless it was something vicious like a wolverine or lion.

 

[Bazoo]

My buddy had a 22 rimfire Henry Mares Leg... it was indeed about the most worthless thing I ever saw. Much less practical than a handgun or rifle either one.

It was somewhat easier to hit with compared to a handgun, at ranges typical to handuns of 15-25 yards, but not as easy as a rifle of course.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

IIRC none of the recipients of the original Buntline Specials found them very practical.

 

[deadeye dick]

Not a machine gun, a Short Barreled Rifle, because it was made by cutting down a rifle below 16/26. The new ones are built from scratch and are "pistols."



Marlin Model 90 combination O/U, wasn't it?

Was "Trapper" a Winchester catalog name for 14-15" lever actions or is that one of those made up collector names?

Wiki didn't say. Was a O/U 30cal top 12 GA bottom. Ran from 59 to 61

 

[Jim Watson]

Marlin collectors say there were 25 .30-30 x 20 gauge; no mention of .30-30 x 12. I wonder if the tv show used one of those or flanged up something in the prop department.

 

[hso]

"range toy"

Yup

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Before the federal 1934 National Firearms Act made them AOWs or SBRs, factory-made .410 single shot pistols with 12" or more length barrel were not classified as pistols or handguns in several southern states pistol laws (pre-1934) because they more likely to be carried by trappers for defense against snakes or predators than by street criminals as weapons of offense.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Cooper Howard, the central character in the TV show, was a cowboy hero long before he became a wandering ghoul bounty hunter.
In the Fallout universe, firearms can have enhanced characteristics, such as shock, flame, critical hit, etc.
His mare's leg obviously carries the 'explosive' enhancement, which makes it a much more useful weapon.
-And does this with normal ammo!
-And, yes, I have played most of the Fallout games... .

 

[Jim Watson]

His mare's leg obviously carries the 'explosive' enhancement,

Reminds me of a cheesy movie whose villain shot a Contender single shot with explosive shells.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

You might get the impression Mare's Legs are common in Movies or TV but what I found on Internet Movie Firearms Database:

Year Film/"TV Series" Character (Performer)
1958–1961 "Wanted: Dead or Alive" Josh Randall (Steve McQueen)
1968 Minnesota Clay Jubbs (Ferdinando Poggi)
1968 Once Upon a Time in the West Stony (Woody Strode)
1993 "The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr.", Crystal Hawks (Sheena Easton)
1998–1999 "The Magnificent Seven" Vin Tanner (Eric Close)
2002–2003 "Firefly" Zoe Washburne (Gina Torres) Jayne Cobb (Adam Baldwin)
2005 Serenity Zoe Washburn (Gina Torres)
2009 Zombieland Tallahasse (Woody Harrelson)
2019 Zombieland: Double Tap Tallahasse (Woody Harrelson)
2021 Gunpowder Milkshake Scarlet (Lena Headey) Anna May (Angela Bassett)

 

[lee n. field]

That leaves the question- what exactly are these things designed for?

LARPing?

(A TeeVee tie in, for folks that're into that kind of thing. Strikes me, though, that this could be a really good base gun for a suppressed PCC SBR. )

 

[FL-NC]

I grew up trapping now 69 years old, at the age of 8 I was learning from an old trapper that was born in 1916. He even talked about having and using a Trapper when out checking his line. He told me when he was trapping wolves and bears it came in real handy to put them down. So please do not show your ignorance if you have not trapped or have known some old-time trappers.

It seems to me that myself and others "show their ignorance" here every time we ask a question about something we don't know. Like, about how things may have been done at some point by someone who was born 108 years ago. Personally, I think I would prefer to exploit the accuracy, power, and effective range of a more conventional gun that could be used (properly aimed and fired) for numerous tasks besides just shooting something angry at short range in a trap that could hurt/kill/eat me. I think I would also prefer something spicier than a pistol round to make that happen in the event of a (grizzly?) bear or wolf, regardless of what it was being fired from- I imagine if I had some dangerous critter in a trap, that might not be the only one in that area- not to mention the high price tag of the contraption in question.

Since the only potentially dangerous critters around here besides reptiles (easy to kill) -and pretty much any area of the SE US- are black bears (illegal to kill in Fl, but not that hard to kill elsewhere if legal), Panthers (also illegal to kill in Fl., but not that hard to kill elsewhere if legal)- and I imagine the best thing to do is call FWC should either get accidentally trapped- coyotes (very easy to kill- its just a dog) and hogs (also easier to kill than most people think- farmers kill domestic pigs with 22's or claw hammers) I feel confident my 10mm or whatever boring long gun I am carrying would be more than up to the task.

In any event, it seems there are more than a few ignorant souls here who also don't see much of a point in these things, other than the previously mentioned purposes: LARPing (had to look that up), range toy, Hollywood, and novelty. And I did enjoy Fallout. It was entertaining, so the show did exactly what it was designed to do, at least for me- even if it did make me think about a gun and cause me to ask the question of Why. As far as the little tiny cowboy gun, I'm not sold- but I truly hope those who have them enjoy them for whatever purpose they own them for. Lastly, nothing against "old timers". They taught me lots of stuff over the years- just not the proper/intended use of a mares leg gun. I'm only 56 for 3 more weeks, so I aspire to be an "old timer" myself one day- even though lots of guys at the dojo, the range, and the bike shop when I roll up on a shovel head with a kick starter say I already am one.

 

[doubleh]

I watched and liked the "Wanted Dead Or Alive" TV show and the mare's leg struck me as gimmick from the get-go. Let's just say I was a Steve McOueen fan, no matter the type of role he was playing. Who would put up with carrying such a heavy and clunky thing? An actor is who trying to attract people to his show. I thought it was goofy but mostly ignored it and no, I have never wanted one.

 

[Mk-211]

 

[FL-NC]

I watched and liked the "Wanted Dead Or Alive" TV show and the mare's leg struck me as gimmick from the get-go. Let's just say I was a Steve McOueen fan, no matter the type of role he was playing. Who would put up with carrying such a heavy and clunky thing? An actor is who trying to attract people to his show. I thought it was goofy but mostly ignored it and no, I have never wanted one.

Steve’s was probably made of balsa wood when it was in his holster

 

[reddog81]

I got a Rossi Ranch Hand in 44 Mag for dirt cheap from a FFL going out of business sale. It made for a bad rifle and a terrible handgun. Thankfully I got it cheap enough I was able to shoot it some and still get my money back when I got rid of it.

With a proper stock it would be a decent gun as the longer barrel length on pistol rounds doesn’t matter as much. According to ballistics by the inch website, once you’re past 10” barrel length each additional inch nets less than 10 FPS gain for 44 Mag.

 

[film495]

If there was some kind of telescoping stock or something to get a decent LOP. but, for the lenght, one of the folding PPCs availalbe probably would work better. Looks cool though, never shot one like he is wearing in that photo though, so - maybe it is the coolest rang toy ever, what do I know?

 

[dobedo]

It seems to me that myself and others "show their ignorance" here every time we ask a question about something we don't know. Like, about how things may have been done at some point by someone who was born 108 years ago. Personally, I think I would prefer to exploit the accuracy, power, and effective range of a more conventional gun that could be used (properly aimed and fired) for numerous tasks besides just shooting something angry at short range in a trap that could hurt/kill/eat me. I think I would also prefer something spicier than a pistol round to make that happen in the event of a (grizzly?) bear or wolf, regardless of what it was being fired from- I imagine if I had some dangerous critter in a trap, that might not be the only one in that area- not to mention the high price tag of the contraption in question.

Since the only potentially dangerous critters around here besides reptiles (easy to kill) -and pretty much any area of the SE US- are black bears (illegal to kill in Fl, but not that hard to kill elsewhere if legal), Panthers (also illegal to kill in Fl., but not that hard to kill elsewhere if legal)- and I imagine the best thing to do is call FWC should either get accidentally trapped- coyotes (very easy to kill- its just a dog) and hogs (also easier to kill than most people think- farmers kill domestic pigs with 22's or claw hammers) I feel confident my 10mm or whatever boring long gun I am carrying would be more than up to the task.

In any event, it seems there are more than a few ignorant souls here who also don't see much of a point in these things, other than the previously mentioned purposes: LARPing (had to look that up), range toy, Hollywood, and novelty. And I did enjoy Fallout. It was entertaining, so the show did exactly what it was designed to do, at least for me- even if it did make me think about a gun and cause me to ask the question of Why. As far as the little tiny cowboy gun, I'm not sold- but I truly hope those who have them enjoy them for whatever purpose they own them for. Lastly, nothing against "old timers". They taught me lots of stuff over the years- just not the proper/intended use of a mares leg gun. I'm only 56 for 3 more weeks, so I aspire to be an "old timer" myself one day- even though lots of guys at the dojo, the range, and the bike shop when I roll up on a shovel head with a kick starter say I already am one.

I agree in today's world a Trapper/Mares leg is a novelty and something I and others may not like or have use for.

 

[Barmcd]

IIRC none of the recipients of the original Buntline Specials found them very practical.

For what? I look at those guns and wonder what they are used for? Some of those have 18” barrels.