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Mare's leg type guns- why?

trackskippy said:
They look cool and threatening and all, but if you want to go beyond that, and be proficient with them, you do need to spend some quality time with them and get them figured out. They certainly are not something to just hand to someone and say "Here ya go". ;)

They may be a "closer" range gun, but they arent just point-blank range guns either, but you do need to know how to shoot them properly to make use of that.

I got one when they first released them and spent a good bit of time with it, and still shoot it pretty regularly. They can be intimidating with full power loads, especially if youre recoil sensitive, and there is a knack, and a couple of techniques to shooting them, but they arent all that difficult once you get them figured out.

And if its smacking you in the face when you shoot it, you're doing it wrong. ;) :)

They may take 3" shells, but I don't/won't use them. I don't use them in my stocked shotguns either. Standard 2 3/4" #1 Buck is my choice for any of them, and they work well in the Shockwaves.

You can also use the "mini" 1 3/4" shells in them too. The early Mossbergs need the adapter to cycle, but they are a good solution for those who are recoil sensitive, and they do give you more rounds in the gun.

At least with the Shockwaves, I can see a realistic use for them, although they would be pretty much at the bottom of my "choice" list. I don't see the Mares Leg being anywhere on the paper either.

The simplest way to figure any of this kind of stuff out, or anything and everything for that matter, is to take it out and shoot it like you intend to use it, and that will sort things pretty quickly, if you're the least bit serious about things. Anyone with a brain knows that what you see in the movies, TV, etc, is just that, "movie magic", and rarely anything close to reality.
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I have a couple of Shockwaves. I use 'em the same way I used a pistol grip only shotgun. With low-brass 00 Buck, they're very effective for extreme close in work. Handy little bastards and even the USMS understood their use was for very specific close-in work. #1 Buck is not easy to find these days. Same with #4 Buck.
 
Regarding the shockwave and similar guns(or any shotgun with only a pistol grip at the rear) they don't make much sense to me either. I don't really care for shotguns either, unless I am shooting something with feathers, or one of the "yard sale specials" I keep on my 4 wheeler in the summer to deal with snakes at close range with birdshot. I have noticed that the people who really know how to use shotguns for more "combat oriented" purposes like the police or competitors in sports like 3 gun always have some sort of stock on the back. In the mil we have VERY short 870's that were smaller than the shock waves with pistol grips that were only used for breaching locks in doors that pushed to open, with special rounds for that purpose. They were never intended to be used for antipersonnel purposes- only as a "tool" for breaching, with the breacher also carrying his normal M4 and pistol.
 
Miami_JBT said:
A weapon that can stop threats in extreme close range while transporting witnesses and suspects from a vehicle to the interior of a court.
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I've heard that the full auto G18 was made to a similar purpose, for defense of dignitaries as well.
Moon
 
I can see a lot more utility in the Shockwave than the Mare's Leg. If nothing more than to be stowed away to repel boarders and home invaders.
 
FL-NC said:
Regarding the shockwave and similar guns(or any shotgun with only a pistol grip at the rear) they don't make much sense to me either. I don't really care for shotguns either, unless I am shooting something with feathers, or one of the "yard sale specials" I keep on my 4 wheeler in the summer to deal with snakes at close range with birdshot. I have noticed that the people who really know how to use shotguns for more "combat oriented" purposes like the police or competitors in sports like 3 gun always have some sort of stock on the back. In the mil we have VERY short 870's that were smaller than the shock waves with pistol grips that were only used for breaching locks in doors that pushed to open, with special rounds for that purpose. They were never intended to be used for antipersonnel purposes- only as a "tool" for breaching, with the breacher also carrying his normal M4 and pistol.
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The shotgun is the most viable and capable firearm available to the American buying public. It is a jack of all trades firearm capable of protecting hearth and home, putting food on the table (both small and large game), and being a sporting arm too. And the American public can get one at prices cheaper than an average trip to the grocery store. The shotgun is the gun that settled and won the west. The shotgun is quintessentially Americana is firearm form.

In the armed force too, the shotgun is still around for more than just door breaching. It still has a specialized role in shipboard security, embassy protection, crowd control, and other niche fields. In law enforcement, it has been supplanted by the patrol rifle. But for a very long time, the shotgun was the go-to longarm for American law enforcement. But you still have a number of agencies that still keep shotguns around for LE us. Prison transport, riot control, less-lethal use, etc.

I trained on both the rifle and the shotgun during my LE career and I still hold the shotgun as being a capable firearm.

As for the Mare's Leg, it was purely a marketing gimmick for TV. The only practical value I see in Mare's Legs is that you can buy one and simply Form 1 it into a SBR without having to cut down the barrel and magazine tube.
 
For a levergun SBR, it's really ideal. You can easily chop a boltgun or replace the barrel on an AR or 10/22 but it's a little more complicated to do on a levergun. Except that I don't recall seeing one that's threaded. Personally, I wouldn't waste the tax stamp when these little 16" guns are readily available and plenty short enough.

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Miami_JBT said:
The shotgun is the most viable and capable firearm available to the American buying public. It is a jack of all trades firearm capable of protecting hearth and home, putting food on the table (both small and large game), and being a sporting arm too. And the American public can get one at prices cheaper than an average trip to the grocery store. The shotgun is the gun that settled and won the west. The shotgun is quintessentially Americana is firearm form.

In the armed force too, the shotgun is still around for more than just door breaching. It still has a specialized role in shipboard security, embassy protection, crowd control, and other niche fields. In law enforcement, it has been supplanted by the patrol rifle. But for a very long time, the shotgun was the go-to longarm for American law enforcement. But you still have a number of agencies that still keep shotguns around for LE us. Prison transport, riot control, less-lethal use, etc.

I trained on both the rifle and the shotgun during my LE career and I still hold the shotgun as being a capable firearm.

As for the Mare's Leg, it was purely a marketing gimmick for TV. The only practical value I see in Mare's Legs is that you can buy one and simply Form 1 it into a SBR without having to cut down the barrel and magazine tube.
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I recently saw a video about the
"Guns that Won the West", The shotgun was #1. Then came the Winchester and the Colt. Oh, I see you mentioned prison transport, I used to be one of those "uniformed bus drivers" and yes we carried a shotgun. Even Joe Biden recommended one some years ago.
 
Eutycus said:
I recently saw a video about the
"Guns that Won the West", The shotgun was #1. Then came the Winchester and the Colt. Oh, I see you mentioned prison transport, I used to be one of those "uniformed bus drivers" and yes we carried a shotgun. Even Joe Biden recommended one some years ago.
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His suggestion for using it left something to be desired.....;)
 
I have seen a few people show up at cowboy action shooting matches with these firearms. They are not legal as pistols (limited to revolvers) or as rifles under SASS rules. I have seen some Match Directors allow people to shoot them just to keep a shooter happy.
 
The problem with the shotguns is, that they can be just as intimidating on both ends to some people and arent the easiest to shoot well with, especially under stress. Their bulk, even with the smaller guns, and recoil levels tend to be counter productive. Things like the Shockwaves, or pistol gripped guns, just take that to the next level.

Personally, I don't see any point in the SMG's, or select fire handguns if there is no stock. Add a stock to them and they are a totally different, and effective critter. And with the right SMG's, pretty much anyone can easily shoot them reasonably well, with just a little training.

Downside to both the shotguns and SMG's (and the Mares Leg too, if for some reason you were serious :)) these days is, most pistol level vests will defeat them. A braced/stocked AR pistol in a rifle caliber just makes a lot more sense.

And like the Mares Leg, and the sawed off shotguns too for that matter, what you see on TV and the movies, and what you get in real life, are usually very different. And if you were to ever run into anyone on the opposing side with one of those, your chances are probably going to be a lot better, as TV, movies, and video games seem to be the instruction classes these days. :)
 
I didn't say the shotgun was useless- just that I've never had much use for one. Hunting big game, I prefer the accuracy and range of a rifle. In combat, at least the combat I participated in (desert or various urban areas) a shotgun would have been useless due to the above limitations, mag capacity, speed of reloading, and lack of compatibility with our modern fighting components like IR lasers and suppressors. Flier pellets would have also caused a serious hazard as it applies to innocent bystanders during raids and such- many people we went after lived with their families, including children. About the only time I saw those benelis used was by gunners on hummers when going through tight populated areas in case someone tried to run up to the truck and toss in a frag, or to shoot out street lights at night time if there was one illuminating a security position. For home defense, I prefer a good handgun with a mounted light, or a PCC for a long gun with white light. This is based on my experience using the 9mm MP5 and handgun in training extensively at close distances.
 
CraigC said:
You can easily chop a boltgun or replace the barrel on an AR or 10/22 but it's a little more complicated to do on a levergun.
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I had a 20" Mirochester that I really wanted to be 16", and yes, it was a challenge to get it cut.
Still thinking about putting a real stock on a Mare's Leg, but it's a lot of trouble for 4" less barrel.
Moon
 
FL-NC said:
or a PCC for a long gun with white light.
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That's what was stashed in the corner during the summer of 2020. Realize a shottie is God's wrath at short range, but it's bigger, holds fewer rounds, and the recoil slows follow-up shots. Yes, tromboning the action will bring non-believers to the Lord. ;)
A Beretta Storm carbine may be about ideal; with its 'through the pistol grip' magwell, it's as short as a 10" AR9.
Realize some folks prefer an AR, but they're longer, and louder, in the house.
Just MHO, worth every penny you paid for it. ;)
Moon
 
The "Trappers" were always my fravorites. Had a couple of them back in the 80's and 90's when they first showed up, in both 44 and 45. Still have one in 45. Handy little rifles, and other than maybe a ghost ring rear sight and a sling, best left as they are. When you think of it too, the saddle rings were ahead of their time. :)

Had a Marlin 336Y in 30-30 for a short time a few years back. With its shorter "youth" stock and LOP, it was a handy little rifle as well. Unfortunately, it was a Remington era gun, and even after going over and picking the best of three at the shop, it turned out to be a dog.
 
halfmoonclip said:
I had a 20" Mirochester that I really wanted to be 16", and yes, it was a challenge to get it cut.
Still thinking about putting a real stock on a Mare's Leg, but it's a lot of trouble for 4" less barrel.
Moon
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It is and I'm probably just weird about it too. I love stubby AR's and 10/22's and went whole-hog on the pistol brace thing but for whatever reason, don't like a levergun shorter than 20". I made a rare exception with that 92 I posted but it's going to be used mostly as a suppressor host with another 8-9" hanging off it.
 
CraigC said:
I made a rare exception with that 92 I posted but it's going to be used mostly as a suppressor host with another 8-9" hanging off it.
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I really love short barrel carbines, and have a couple 3 SBRs. But I've stayed away from suppressors for the same reason; they take a short, handy carbine, and make it long and cumbersome.
Saw a ten inch Scorpion with an integral suppressor, which looked really cool. But that suppressor would have been dedicated to the Scorp; it seems to me, using it on numerous hosts makes more sense.
That Mirochester is about a work of art; I'm not about to hang a can on that. :)
Moon
 
halfmoonclip said:
I really love short barrel carbines, and have a couple 3 SBRs. But I've stayed away from suppressors for the same reason; they take a short, handy carbine, and make it long and cumbersome.
Saw a ten inch Scorpion with an integral suppressor, which looked really cool. But that suppressor would have been dedicated to the Scorp; it seems to me, using it on numerous hosts makes more sense.
That Mirochester is about a work of art; I'm not about to hang a can on that. :)
Moon
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I think it's the braced pistols that have ruined me. Basically an SBR without the need for a tax stamp. Pity you can't put a brace on a levergun. ;)
 
CraigC said:
I think it's the braced pistols that have ruined me. Basically an SBR without the need for a tax stamp. Pity you can't put a brace on a levergun. ;)
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Some serious truth to that. I got aboard the brace train for awhile, and finally just SBR'd it, when the controversy started.
You've made the wheels turn in my head; a slim, wooden buttstock, with a slot cut for a strap....would that keep the BATF happy?
Moon
 
halfmoonclip said:
Some serious truth to that. I got aboard the brace train for awhile, and finally just SBR'd it, when the controversy started.
You've made the wheels turn in my head; a slim, wooden buttstock, with a slot cut for a strap....would that keep the BATF happy?
Moon
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I don't know but I'd probably get one if it were available, no matter how ugly it was.
 
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