Marines choose new weapon

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Recent news blurb from Janes:



Welcome to Jane's Land Forces News Briefs

Heckler & Koch in pole position for USMC rifle contract
The US Marine Corps (USMC) has selected Heckler & Koch (H&K) Defense to supply its 5.56 mm Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR), according to industry sources. It is understood that the HK416 IAR variant has been preferred to two offerings from Colt Defense and FNH USA's SCAR (special operations forces combat assault rifle) variant following approximately eight months of trials

[first posted to http://idr.janes.com - 30 October 2009]

Just FYI

Ralph
 
SAW =/= full-auto M16 variant. I don't care if it does have a piston and was assembled in the depths of the Black Forest by the war-dwarves of the Teutonic Weapons Masters, H und K.

Not even close in capability.

Mike
 
Black Forest by the war-dwarves of the Teutonic Weapons Masters, H und K.
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As we speak the war-dwarves have summoned the Midnight Dragons to fly to your house and devour you.
 
"This is to supplement the SAW, not replace the M16A4."


"SAW =/= full-auto M16 variant. I don't care if it does have a piston and was assembled in the depths of the Black Forest by the war-dwarves of the Teutonic Weapons Masters, H und K.

Not even close in capability."
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Key word there is SUPPLEMENT, not replace. We can debate whether that is a good idea or not, but I don't think ANYONE with more than two brain cells to rub together thinks that it's going to replace a belt fed gun.
 
Beware of the Teutonic War Dwarves! They may load ammo backwards in your magazines for you!
 
H&K I'm sure make fine arms, but are they not a German Co. are we shipping more things
to be manufactured overseas and put more Americans out of work?? please respond to
this to set me straight, so we have the Beratta as a side arm for our troops, why not get them from Russia or even China, *** is going on in this country.

Ron
 
Beware of the Teutonic War Dwarves! They may load ammo backwards in your magazines for you!
Click to expand...

Or load the magazine correctly and insert it in the gun backwards. You just never know when you're heckling cokes.

I think the IAR specification makes sense for the marines and the M249 isn't going anywhere. The IAR as I understand it is closer to an RPK in concept and role while the M249 is a rather fancy and heavy weapon to field in each squad, though very effective while it's working.
 
H&K I'm sure make fine arms, but are they not a German Co. are we shipping more things
to be manufactured overseas and put more Americans out of work?? please respond to
this to set me straight, so we have the Beratta as a side arm for our troops, why not get them from Russia or even China, *** is going on in this country.
Click to expand...

I guess you don't know that HK, FN, Beretta, Sig-Saur, Glock, and CZ, among other manufacturers, have factories and service centers in the US that employ many people?

Or that many "damned furrin' companies" produce a better product than domestic companies? Or that many "US brand" companies have a lot of foreign product in their lineup, rebranded and sold at a higher price simply for the profit?


Kind of like ignorantly whining that Honda and Toyota are "Jap crap brands" and "GM, Ford, and Chrysler" are the only American brands when the Honda and Toyota are built in the US out of US parts while the other brands are built in Canada or Mexico out of foreign components.
 
That isn't near as fair of a comparison though. Many parts from those "import" cars are built and assembled in the US. Those rifles are all imported and sold in the US. Far less money stays in the country when things are just imported rather than manufactured. I'm not arguing against using a foreign source for cars or rifles, just that the comparison is a bit weak at best.
 
H&K I'm sure make fine arms, but are they not a German Co. are we shipping more things to be manufactured overseas and put more Americans out of work??
Click to expand...
That's capitalism for you...

With government contracts like this you will find that the free market is heavily influenced by government wheeling and dealing. You can be sure Germany is buying something else from the US, and if those deals lead to better use of production capacity, economy of scale and all that, both countries' tax payers will be better off. In theory of course.
 
That isn't near as fair of a comparison though. Many parts from those "import" cars are built and assembled in the US. Those rifles are all imported and sold in the US. Far less money stays in the country when things are just imported rather than manufactured. I'm not arguing against using a foreign source for cars or rifles, just that the comparison is a bit weak at best.
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FN-USA maintains a full production plant in Columbia, SC, making arms for our troops. Also one in one of the northern states, I think.

Sig Saur makes much of their line in the States, too.

It's an accurate and apt comparison, no differnt thanwhen folks say "XYZ brand, it's just the choice of Ford/Chevy/Dodge"

Rather than getting down to the nitty gritty of it, I intended to make the point that hollering about foreign brands is getting quite stale.
 
so we have the Beratta as a side arm for our troops, why not get them from Russia or even China, *** is going on in this country.
Click to expand...

It's not as if we just went out and bought Berettas, man. They went through a tough trial and won. Pretty simple, really. Holler all you want about American companies, but none of them stepped up to the plate. Even my beloved Ruger was a day late and a dollar short with their entry, which went on to become the P series of pistols...

It's also worth noting that a large (overwhelming, even) number of our arms are produced by FN, a Belgian company. They employ a ton of Americans, but in the end they are still a foreign-held company. For that matter, this isn't even the first H&K offering to be purchased by the US Military.
 
Does H&K make a thing here or not? Does CZ make a thing here or not? Pretty sure Glock is the same way. Its a poor comparison since many parts from even "Domestic" cars are imports while firearms tend to be an all or nothing deal and are either manufactured here or are imported here, not much of a middle ground. Analogies suck, especially those referring to cars.

If the point was that simple to say why use an analogy?

That said, point taken and I agree with the point.
 
FN bought Winchester - they all come from the same plant in SC now....perhaps some posters here should stop buying Winchesters? Same goes for Budweiser....foreign owned!

I don't care where the gear comes from, as long as it is available/the best there is, for our troops.

More important than a patriotic pissing match, Was there any word on new/redesigned magazines for those guns? I think the mags are a bigger shortcoming than the gas system.
 
More important than a patriotic pissing match, Was there any word on new/redesigned magazines for those guns? I think the mags are a bigger shortcoming than the gas system.
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Mags for which gun? The M-16/AR-15/whatever uses an M-16 magazine?

It's called the Magpul PMAG for the standard 30 round magazine. Bigger? I'd be leery of the Beta C mag, dunno of anything else out there.

If you are talking about the IAR (and if it uses a different mag) then I don't know....
 
Just because the company is foreign doesnt mean we are importing all the weapons. They will still be built here in the US by Americans.

Hell now that Colt lost the contract for the M4, pretty much most if not all of our small arms are from foreign companies.
 
The major firearms design bureaus are overseas.

Our industry base has been off shored. Once the factory moves, the design/developer jobs follow.

H&K redesigned the British L85A2 to a reliable weapon. H&K also was the lead contractor for the now defunct US advanced infantry rifle.

Even in prototype form, it was more reliable in Army dust tests than the M4.
 
I know this may sound conspiratorial but I think that the way certain large foreign entities get these contracts has a lot to do with their knowledge of lobbying and government procurement procedures. There are purely US firearms companies that make excellent products.
 
Old news Spec Ops have been using the 416 for some time. It is not a big deal, not like the 416 is replacing the M4 as the standard issue service weapon.
 
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