Marlin 1894c 357 - I probably won't buy another Marlin

[TEC]

A few years back, I got the itch for a lever gun in .357/38 to complement my pistol portfolio in that caliber. After some searching, I found a new Marlin 1834c locally - at an unnamed big box store, and purchased it. From day one, it was never really a smooth action. Reasonably accurate with tip off mounts and a Burris 2x7X 35 mm scope, it filled a niche in my gun safe -- but it was never one of my favorites. Here's why.

Because (my bad), I didn't really research the Marlin 1894c thoroughly. It has an inherent design flaw in the cartridge carrier mechanism that results in a "dreaded Marlin jam" problem (buyers beware). It shot OK, but wasn't really as butter smooth as my childhood days watching Chuck Conner/The Rifleman led me to believe that bolt action "Cowboy" rifles might be.

My second mistake was (again without adequate research) that over time, the new action would smooth out. It didn't. It got worse, if anything. It was moved to the back of the gun safe. Looked nice, but didn't get used much.

Fast forward to this weekend. Rainy weather and a wife, out of town, led to some down time that I decided to fill with working on some firearms, including the Marlin. No gunsmith, for sure, but neither am I all thumbs or without the tools needed to, on occasion, do a bit of gun-smithing in the extra bedroom given time and motivation. Went on line and watched a couple of videos on the complete disassembly and reassembly of this rifle and one on tune ups, including fixes for the Marlin jam problems. Took the rifle down and sure enough, there it was! A "notch" in the carrier mechanism caused by a sharp edge on the cocking lever cam digging into the bearing surface of the carrier. So I researched further. The best fix seemed to be to replace the carrier and do a bit of minor alteration to "radius" the sharp edge on the lever's cam. The second was easy enough. The first? Well here's more.

Midway was "unavailable - backorder OK", and Numeric was "out of stock". Brownells didn't have the part but did have live, on-line chat help. Bottom line? Called Marlin and ordered the part . . . right up to the point where the service rep asked if I had a FFL (federal firearms licencse)?! No, why? "Because that's a restricted part and we can only ship to a FFL (Obviously Brownell's, Midway, and Numeric are unaware of this restriction).

During my research, I had also come across a several other "fixes" that involved 1) welding and grinding on the carrier, 2) heating and bending the carrier, and 3) machining (filing) a notch and cutting a piece of hacksaw blade to resurface the notched face of the carrier, and then using JB Weld (metal expoxy) to secure the hardened metal blade part to the modified carrier. I decided to choose door #3



After the JB Welds has set up tomorrow, there will be a bit more stoning and polishing to do before I can see if this works, as posted elsewhere. But here's the thing: Marlin's 1894c's apparently have a known design flaw, and Marlin's customer service tells me a FFL license or alternate shipping (with attendant extra transfer charges, in addition to a price higher than other retailers that don't require a FFL) makes it unreasonably hard and more expensive to correct the manufacturer's initial design flaw.

So, Marlin, "Thanks, but no thanks." I do hope that Rube Goldberg and I can overcome your design flaw. In the meantime, i have backordered the part from another retailer, who doesn't seem to think a FFL is needed to obtain an after market improved part. Just something to consider for any of those thinking about purchasing a new lever gun from Marlin.

 

[Jackal]

As I said in a previous post about Marlin lever rifles: You would think that after 100 years, they could get it right.

 

[TEC]

. . . or at least not make it a hassle to order a replacement part! Was there an executive order signed that I missed that makes the carrier restricted to FFL shipment?

 

[Jackal]

. . . or at least not make it a hassle to order a replacement part! Was there an executive order signed that I missed that makes the carrier restricted to FFL shipment?

I guess S&W is the same way with the M&P10 rifle. They will not sell you parts.

The very same reason our company switched from Stihl chainsaws to Husqvarna. Stihl gives customers the middle finger and will only sell parts to "authorized service dealers". Whereas Husky will sell you every nut/bolt/part direct.

 

[Goody3086]

I assume you found this?

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/tuning_m_1894.htm

 

[mjsdwash]

sad to see, my 1894c has been problem free as long as ive owned it. only jams on wadcutters, and on some semi wadcutters. dosent mind hollowpoints

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

If you look at the situation from the porch of gun dealers (especially those who provide service and not just a selection) those manufacturers are protecting their dealers. I wish a few more manufacturers in my particular corner of the business world were a little more concerned about the fiscal health of those of us whom they expect to provide warranty service work at reduced labor rates, attend service schools on our dimes, and keep an inventory of parts that MIGHT be needed.

As for the Marlin 1894C in .357 mag, I have had one since the early 1990's and have put thousands of rounds through it without a hitch. I guess that I am just lucky.....

 

[Officers'Wife]

sad to see, my 1894c has been problem free as long as ive owned it. only jams on wadcutters, and on some semi wadcutters. dosent mind hollowpoints

I've never had any problem with mine either but then it doesn't get used much either.

 

[PO2Hammer]

The Rifleman used a Winchester 1892, you should too.

 

[TEC]

Yes on the Winchester 1892. Here's an update on my progress with the 1894.

After the JB Weld set up on the re-faced carrier, I polished it out a bit, put some moly paste on the surface, re-assembled and ran a magazine (9 rounds) through with pretty much the same results as before the fix.



Disassembly and inspection showed that the same notch was forming in the hacksaw blade. Specs call for 0.025-0.035 in radius on the lever's cam. I set my calipers to 0.035 and eyeballed it, and decided I hadn't been aggressive enough putting a radius on the cam, and that (as intended), my first try at re-facing the carrier had left the blade face too high.

After using 400 grit wet/dry to take the blade surface flush with the carrier face, I used a Dremel tool with Flitz metal polish and finished the new blade surface to a mirror. I used a jewelers file to increase the radius on the cam, rounded it with a small strip of 400 grit, and also polished it to a mirror finish.

I polished the pivot screws for the carrier, lever, and trigger. I applied moly paste (moly based grease) sparingly to each of the polished surfaces. The action was much better, but still not exactly right. There was still a definite hitch at the start of the upstroke with an occasional rough feed or jam. On careful inspection, the hitch proved to be the back of the bolt traveling forward over the top of the cocked trigger. Now I know why some suggest lightening the trigger spring. But on really careful inspection, I noticed that both the top of the trigger and especially the small hump (cam?) on the underside of the bolt were rough as a cob.



More polishing of the undersurface of the bolts cam and the upper bearing surface of the hammer cured the "hitch" and dramatically smoothed out the action. The "hitch" in the action, and I think, the source of most of my feed problem, especially when the action was cycled rapidly, was that rough surface causing enough of a "bolt jolt" to foul the feed. Each jam or rough feed aggravated the notching of the carrier.

Anyway, the action is now appropriately smooth - enough to cycle the action comfortably with one finger, and no more feeding problems irrespective of the speed. I suspect lightening the trigger spring would further improve the action, but if it's working now, I don't see a need to fix anything else.

 

[natman]

. . . or at least not make it a hassle to order a replacement part! Was there an executive order signed that I missed that makes the carrier restricted to FFL shipment?

They may say that an FFL is required, but it's not a legal requirement. What they really want is for the part to be shipped to a gunsmith to have him install it. Since all gunsmiths have FFLs...

 

[Berserker]

It seems it is not unsual to slick up the action on levers

With my last one, I coated it with motor oil, and cycled 1000 times. Cleaned it up good, and was alot better. A lever action fan told me to do this.

My latest, was very smooth out of the box, I haven't bothered to do this.

 

[Danny Creasy]

My experience is the same as mjsdwash. My rifle feeds .357 cartridges and .38 Special equally well. I even pulled the little Lyman receiver sight, put the semi-buckhorn rear sight back on, and shot it in cowboy action matches for a few years. I guess the "Marlin jam" of which you speak is what I have witnessed occur with two friends' Marlin 1894 .44 Magnums. The rifles had to be disassembled to clear. That has never occurred with my 1894 .357 Magnum.

I purchased the rifle from Woolco Department Store in the early 80s right after production in .357 started.

I did quickly discover that the Micro-groove rifling preferred jacketed bullets and my particular carbine really loves heavier jacketed bullets. I keep it zeroed for Federal 180 grain jacketed hollow points. It will put five of them in an inch and a half at 50 yards. I'm not even sure if Federal still makes that loading, but I have a cherished box of it. I purchased the fine little Lyman receiver sight at a Birmingham gun show in the early 80s as well, for $10.

When I tried Cowboy action for a while in the 90s, I determined that the rifle would group well enough with lead bullets and open sights for that game. I hand loaded 1000 rounds of 158 grain lead round nose and had no trouble with feeding or cowboy match accuracy.

After tiring of that sport, I took the rifle back to peep sights and heavy-weight jacketed HP bullets for deer, and more recently, emergencies.

If I was forced to keep only one centerfire rifle, this might be it.

An amusing aside: Once I got a flyer back in the 90s and some place had Speer 180 grain .357 silhouette bullets at a greatly reduced price. I took a chance on a box of 100. Dang, they had long slow tapered points. I loaded 'em up anyway, and though they were way to long to feed, I shot them up via single loading – inserting one round at a time directly into the chamber. Those hand loads were incredibly accurate, but not very practical. They were true FMJs – even the bases. I almost used the 100 freshly loaded beauties as an excuse to purchase a .357 Magnum chambered T/C Contender but ended up shooting little groups and ringing 100 yard gongs with them in the Marlin.

 

[greyling22]

Yes on the Winchester 1892. Here's an update on my progress with the 1894.

After the JB Weld set up on the re-faced carrier, I polished it out a bit, put some moly paste on the surface, re-assembled and ran a magazine (9 rounds) through with pretty much the same results as before the fix.



Disassembly and inspection showed that the same notch was forming in the hacksaw blade. Specs call for 0.025-0.035 in radius on the lever's cam. I set my calipers to 0.035 and eyeballed it, and decided I hadn't been aggressive enough putting a radius on the cam, and that (as intended), my first try at re-facing the carrier had left the blade face too high.

After using 400 grit wet/dry to take the blade surface flush with the carrier face, I used a Dremel tool with Flitz metal polish and finished the new blade surface to a mirror. I used a jewelers file to increase the radius on the cam, rounded it with a small strip of 400 grit, and also polished it to a mirror finish.

I polished the pivot screws for the carrier, lever, and trigger. I applied moly paste (moly based grease) sparingly to each of the polished surfaces. The action was much better, but still not exactly right. There was still a definite hitch at the start of the upstroke with an occasional rough feed or jam. On careful inspection, the hitch proved to be the back of the bolt traveling forward over the top of the cocked trigger. Now I know why some suggest lightening the trigger spring. But on really careful inspection, I noticed that both the top of the trigger and especially the small hump (cam?) on the underside of the bolt were rough as a cob.



More polishing of the undersurface of the bolts cam and the upper bearing surface of the hammer cured the "hitch" and dramatically smoothed out the action. The "hitch" in the action, and I think, the source of most of my feed problem, especially when the action was cycled rapidly, was that rough surface causing enough of a "bolt jolt" to foul the feed. Each jam or rough feed aggravated the notching of the carrier.

Anyway, the action is now appropriately smooth - enough to cycle the action comfortably with one finger, and no more feeding problems irrespective of the speed. I suspect lightening the trigger spring would further improve the action, but if it's working now, I don't see a need to fix anything else.

I use a belt sander to take nearly a 1/4" off the nose of the hammer on all mine to prevent that closing hitch you are talking about. I also lighten the hammer spring, trigger spring, finger plunger spring, take some of the bend out of the ejector, and polish everything up real nice. Takes about an hour but results in a vastly superior firearm.

also, I might try calling marlin again and ask to speak to somebody new. somebody who understands that the carrier is not the serialized part. Or tell them "fine. I'd like a shipping label for ya'll to do some warranty work" or have an FFL help you out. They shouldn't mind. they're not doing a transfer, just receiving a package.

 

[rcmodel]

JB Weld??

Seriously??

That's what they make low temp silver solder for!
I wouldn't trust JB Weld as far as I could bowl a double tube of it on a critical gun repair like that!!

rc

 

[Rule3]

As to parts, many companies will not sell certain parts. Ruger is one of the big ones. It's for their safety and liability, They do not want someone messing it up and then blaming them. Sig in the past would not sell the SRT parts for their triggers.

JB weld on the action of a lever gun??

 

[TEC]

rcmodel, et al:

As I posted, earlier,
1. I probably won't invest in another Marlin rifle, and,
2. I consider this a Rube Goldberg fix (if you know who that person was), and,
3. I have indeed ordered the replacement carrier.

As for the JB weld fix, like soldering, a good glued connection starts with a good mechanical connection. By filing a broad notch into the carrier, and then, grinding the blade part to fit as precisely as possible, any x-axis (long axis) shift is mechanically reinforced. The main force of the lever's cam's action is in the z-axis, tending to press the blade into the notched carrier, not to displace the blade out of it. There should be no significant side to side, y-axis forces on the blade part during the normal cycling action.

JB Weld is a slow-setting metal-epoxy resin, and epoxy resins can be plenty strong, if done carefully. I intentionally left the carrier surface a bit rough and also used a file to rough up the underside of the file blade part, to bare, clean metal surface. After 24 hours, the glued part subsequently stood up to a file, a grinder, a buffing wheel, and polishing the surface with a Dremel tool. It seems to be securely and properly glued.

While I would never bet my life on this part fix, I would bet that a careful JB Weld fix of the hacksaw blade part will hold at least as well as any effort I might make to fix it with silver solder. And silver solder, even though relatively low temperature, compared to welding, still means heating the carrier and the small blade part to the melting point of silver. Doing so could well change the tempered hardness of the blade (defeating the purpose), or the carrier or both (no?). And even if I were an expert at silver soldering, I still not trust a silver solder fix as a permanent solution.

So, this should be OK as a temporary fix, and for a range sessions of target shooting -- but certainly not a fix I would bet my life on. In fact, given a choice, I would never trust a Marlin 1894c with this known design flaw with my life, under any circumstances.

 

[BCRider]

TEC, something you may not realize about hacksaw blades is that on many or eve most of them only the teeth are hardened. The other 3/4's of the width is still soft. And that would explain the re-occurrence of the notch.

The rounding of the edge that forces the notch to occur might fix things. But if it comes back and you still don't have a replacement carrier or if the replacement has the same issue then this time invest in a set of feeler gauges and use one of the appropriately thick leaves to use for your new modification.

The feeler gauge leaves are hardened and spring tempered so they are tough and highly resistant to this sort of cold forming.'

RemLin stopped making the 1894's for a while and I see that they are back now. I would like to hope that they have fixed this silly issue. Especially since they pretty much ignored the problem before.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

TEC, something you may not realize about hacksaw blades is that on many or eve most of them only the teeth are hardened. The other 3/4's of the width is still soft. And that would explain the re-occurrence of the notch.

Bingo. If the rest of the blade itself were as hard as the teeth, the blade would snap when flexed. Only the teeth are hardened.

Neat video on hacksaw blade manufacturing:

 

[captain awesome]

Instead of a hacksaw blade I would grind down a piece of a file. That is some hard steel.
I had a Marlin lever action and it never was smooth. I also figured if I worked the action it would smooth up. Nope. Only got worse just like yours. I sold it.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Or, since a hacksaw blade is capable of being hardened, size a piece he already has to suit, then harden it before installing it.

Shouldn't be that difficult!

 

[BCRider]

Or, since a hacksaw blade is capable of being hardened, size a piece he already has to suit, then harden it before installing it.

Shouldn't be that difficult!

It depends on the sort of blade. The fancy bi-metal blades are made from joined bands of two types of steel. So they may not react as expected.

Oddly enough the cheaper import blades would likely respond to home hardening the best.