Marlin Camp 9
- Thread starter BIGRETIC
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chevyforlife21
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it would make it more reliable but in turn wear out your gun much faster
R.W.Dale
Member
That would be the case with a lighter spring, but the op is going in the other direction.
My advice is to try it and see if the rifle shortstrokes.
R.W.Dale
Member
If this isn't a life or death carbine for you I'd more than be willing to trade the occasional FTF for a much longer lifespan. In my opinion the bolt on these carbines isn't nearly as massive as it needed to have been. A heavier spring should help that poor overworked buffer live a longer and happier life
Lifespan of what? A $9 and easily replaceable, widely available, and far-better-than-factory aftermarket buffer? Not trying to criticize you, but the factory buffers were crap, granted, but "poor overworked buffer"? Aftermarket Camp 9 buffers don't disintegrate like the "pale yellow" factory ones did, (from intolerance to VOC gases). Unless the OP is routinely shooting +P in his Camp 9, a 21# spring may be a tad too much. Advice to "trade the occasional FTF for a much longer lifespan" (of the buffer ?) doesn't make sense to me. A good aftermarket buffer solves the buffer problem. The spring should be appropriate for the ammunition, not a prophylactic for extending buffer-life. IMO.
Les
Les
R.W.Dale
Member
Not just the buffer but the life of the entire rifle. These guns are little more than a scaled up .22 and as a result even with the best buffer in the world the marlin camp rifles are still beating the crap out of themselves with each shot. The little dinky buffers in these guns are a joke and just barely manage to keep the stock from breaking. There's a reason the bolt in other 9mm carbines weigh 2 or 3 times as much as the marlin's
I stand corrected, I guess. You're the first one I've ever encountered who holds the opinion that replacing the sub-par factory recoil spring and buffer doesn't fix the durability / collateral-damage (bridge-strut then stock-cracking) problems of the Marlin Camp carbine.
Les
Les
R.W.Dale
Member
I'm of the opinion that having and relying on a piece of plastic not even a quarter inch thick is just as big a bandaid fix as installing a heavier spring. No matter how you slice it the marlin camp is a throw together design with odviously next to no R&D put into it. The bolt just isn't heavy enough for anything stouter than milktoast remchester 115 grn ball practice ammo and even then i'd be suprised if you could nurse a camp carbine past 5000 rds before it hammers itself to pieces even with a blackjack buffer.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
Quote:
That would be the case with a lighter spring, but the op is going in the other direction.
My advice is to try it and see if the rifle shortstrokes.
+1.
"16# is factory on both the Camp 9 and 45. It's too light and a "birth defect" in these great carbines, along with the disintegrating recoil buffer.
Les "
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actually the factory spring is 11 lbs.
I replaced the factory with a 21 in my .45 and also a blackjack buffer. the brass drops in my county now. sure is stiffer cocking but well worth it.
I used a 16.5 for my 9mm and again blackjack buffer (the buffer in my 9mm literally came apart - after about 800 rounds). these are much better than the factory nylon. I haven't seen the need for the 21 lb in the 9mm after about 2K rounds of which about 50% were +P 124 gr.
the stock breakage is attributable to the weak spring and buffer and loose stock screws. the screw tightness is important.
I surely hope they last longer than 5K rounds, it seems they will but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on the maintenance - they are too valuable to ignore.
That would be the case with a lighter spring, but the op is going in the other direction.
My advice is to try it and see if the rifle shortstrokes.
+1.
"16# is factory on both the Camp 9 and 45. It's too light and a "birth defect" in these great carbines, along with the disintegrating recoil buffer.
Les "
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actually the factory spring is 11 lbs.
I replaced the factory with a 21 in my .45 and also a blackjack buffer. the brass drops in my county now. sure is stiffer cocking but well worth it.
I used a 16.5 for my 9mm and again blackjack buffer (the buffer in my 9mm literally came apart - after about 800 rounds). these are much better than the factory nylon. I haven't seen the need for the 21 lb in the 9mm after about 2K rounds of which about 50% were +P 124 gr.
the stock breakage is attributable to the weak spring and buffer and loose stock screws. the screw tightness is important.
I surely hope they last longer than 5K rounds, it seems they will but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on the maintenance - they are too valuable to ignore.
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You have a strong opinion, krochus, no doubt.
My "you're the first" observation is unanswered still, however. You critique the design intelligently, but offer no examples, i.e.: you "would be surprised if..."
It all sounds academic. Are you a Marlin Camp owner, a gunsmith who's seen a bunch of these in deteriorated condition, whether altered-or-not... ?
Are you criticizing a design, or have you got some real-life experience to help me out with?
Regards,
Les
My "you're the first" observation is unanswered still, however. You critique the design intelligently, but offer no examples, i.e.: you "would be surprised if..."
It all sounds academic. Are you a Marlin Camp owner, a gunsmith who's seen a bunch of these in deteriorated condition, whether altered-or-not... ?
Are you criticizing a design, or have you got some real-life experience to help me out with?
Regards,
Les
R.W.Dale
Member
Yes Ive owned a couple camp carbines as well as a few other 9mm carbines so I do in fact have a pretty good handle on how a blowback 9mm should be built and how it should run. I got rid of my camp eventually because of the inability to safely fire anything other than underloaded American plinking ammo. Heck even the lowly high point 995 can fire +p+ loads
The marlin is certianlly a pretty rifle as far as 9mm carbines go but it just doesn't have any margins for durability built into it (again for the third time) because the bolt is just too damn light and to that end I'd certianlly run the heaviest spring possible
The marlin is certianlly a pretty rifle as far as 9mm carbines go but it just doesn't have any margins for durability built into it (again for the third time) because the bolt is just too damn light and to that end I'd certianlly run the heaviest spring possible
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I accept your points, krochus, and can't argue them, as I only shoot American plinking ammo through mine. I think the Camp 9 was never intended to be a +P+ rifle. It is what it is, and mine's fun and reliable, with the necessary spring and buffer up-fits. I agree it's not a battle-rifle.
Regards,
Les
Regards,
Les
Speaking from personal experience with the Marlin, I really do not know where you are coming from with this. The Marlin is a beefed up version of the model 60 as you stated. However, the overall construction is far from flimsy. The receiver is MACHINED STEEL which is almost nonexistant on todays crop of self loaders. The bolt is a solid block of steel which has comparable mass to the current crop of space age plastic guns coming out of factories today. In fact, the only appreciable amount of plastic found on the gun is the trigger group. However, the trigger group is not a high stress part and the only way it could break would be if it were smashed on concrete. Yes, the Marlin has its share of faults with the buffers and weak recoil springs, but these problems are easily resolved. Its still a mystery to me how Marlin (with the overall excellent reputation that they have) managed to manufacture this gun for 15 years and not address these annoying issues. As for the cracked stocks, just keep the stock screws TIGHT and the problem should be nonexistant.
R.W.Dale
Member
I disagree, The bolt on the marlin is very small and LIGHT compared to other blowback 9mm's only weighing a little more than the slide on a blowback .380 handgun. The bolt on the High Point, 9mm AR15 and Beretta Storm is at least a couple times the size and weight of the marlin. This is really really important on a blowback operated firearm because bolt mass and spring pressure are all that keeps the brass chambered while the chamber pressure dissipates. The heavier the bolt the lower the chamber pressure apoun extraction and most importantly lower bolt velocities as it travels rearward and slams into whatever arrests it's rearward travel.
Well in all fairness the Marlin that was around when these guns were being produced wasn't exactly known for being on the cutting edge of firearms development
This is probably the best advice in this entire thread
R.W.Dale
Member
All in all very Highroad
Pick up a High Point or a Bersa slide sometime? I'm beginning to suspect your marlin is the ONLY 9mm carbine you have experience with
If I'd only driven or ridden in a Ford Escort I'd probably think it was a pretty nice car.
Hmmm...I once again have to disagree with the bolt weight issue. You are comparing the weight of a .380 slide to the Marlin bolt. I have handled .380s before (Ex: Sig) and there is no comparision.
Guns like the Hipoint, Beretta, etc...consist of receivers constructed from either sheet steel, aluminum, or plastic (I believe the Hipoint is a zinc alloy). Most of these guns must rely on a massive bolt and/or stiff spring to keep it functioning. The Marlin is a simple blowback and was constructed to just handle standard pressures. The solid steel construction will keep the gun functioning despite receiver battery. In essence, a good stiff recoil spring is the principle remedy.
Guns like the Hipoint, Beretta, etc...consist of receivers constructed from either sheet steel, aluminum, or plastic (I believe the Hipoint is a zinc alloy). Most of these guns must rely on a massive bolt and/or stiff spring to keep it functioning. The Marlin is a simple blowback and was constructed to just handle standard pressures. The solid steel construction will keep the gun functioning despite receiver battery. In essence, a good stiff recoil spring is the principle remedy.
R.W.Dale
Member
My point precicley. Today "standard 9mm pressures" means crappy wallyworld ball, that's IT. Also concider a that if a gun "just" handles std pressure it's obviously not going to be as robust as firearm that can handle thermonuclear Herterberger subgun ammo with both firing "standard" loads. ESPECIALLY blowback operated firearms
At the expense of all the parts on the rifle that Aren't solid steel
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krochus said:
Well... you got me nailed on that one, as far as owning one... I still say your contention that the bolt-weight of a Marlin Camp compares to any .380 is all bluster. I also maintain that you're the only one I've ever read or heard that opined that a properly-modified Marlin Camp is an irretrievably flawed POS.
Regards,
Les
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