Mauser in 45-70 ?

[DustyGmt]

I was watching a you tube video of an older man who was shooting a Siamese Mauser in 45-70. I'm pretty interested to find out more about them, not turning up much on Google. What was the purpose of the 45-70 Mauser, was it strictly chambered 4570 for a sporting arm or was it used militarily by any countries?

I'd like to locate one, does anybody know about how much I'd expect to pay for one or if they are hard to find? It's kind of a strange clambering for that gun......

 

[LoonWulf]

Believe they were never factory offerings, tho i could be wrong
@troy fairweather and others have a much better understanding of the ins and outs of mausers than I do.
Think troy has one of those too.

 

[Speedo66]

From what I’ve read, they were Mauser “type” rifles, not made by Mauser, but rather Japan’s gov’t armory, with a couple of changes including a sliding dust cover.

They used their own caliber, 8x50, later changed to 8x52, with a modification to earlier rifles to allow them to use the new chambering.

 

[.455_Hunter]

From what I’ve read, they were Mauser “type” rifles, not made by Mauser, but rather Japan’s gov’t armory, with a couple of changes including a sliding dust cover.

They used their own caliber, 8x50, later changed to 8x52, with a modification to earlier rifles to allow them to use the new chambering.

Yes- Those rimmed rounds allowed relatively easy conversion by re-barreling.

 

[Mauser fan]

Check out this link. https://www.forgottenweapons.com/type-45-siamese-mauser/

 

[LimaCharlie]

There are many calibers built on a Mauser action. This is my custom rifle built on a Mauser action in 460 Weatherby Magnum.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Also check out the Gibbs Summit rifles. These were .45-70 conversions using some specific Lee Enfield rifles.

 

[troy fairweather]

 

[Jerry M]

As stated above Siamese Mausers actions were converted to .45-70 for the U.S. market. I've only seen sporters, I'm not sure if any were in military configuration.

 

[troy fairweather]

Mine is done by navy arms and from all I've seen its the nicest I've seen, some are pretty crude and not the best stocks. This one shoots great easy to touch shots at 50 yards and probably at 100 if it had a scope. Dad did some work on this one, reason I thinks it's better looking than most. It's been throated for 400 swift a-frame. One day I'll reblue it and maybe drill and tap.

 

[jmr40]

The 45-70 can be loaded to 3 different power levels. The original rifles and reproductions thereof are limited to low powered loads comparable to the original black powder loads. Basically the same as a 45 caliber muzzle loading rifle.

The lever action rifles are OK with the same low powered loads as well as some mid level loads. The original loads are pretty anemic and only suitable for deer size game. The mid-level loads make 45-70 a legitimate elk or moose rifle.

Modern single shots like the Ruger #1's and modern bolt actions can handle the upper level loads. I'm not aware of any factory bolt guns in 45-70, but there are a few guys who have gone that route with custom builds. And some factory conversions. The bolt action 45-70 conversions are for the guys wanting to safely get all they can from the 45-70 cartridge.

Even the hottest 45-70 loads aren't going to make it a 458 WM though. You'll get a 400 gr bullet to about the same speed as a 500 gr bullet in a 458. Unless I just wanted to have something different buying a 458 and downloading it to 45-70 power levels seems like the easier route. But a lot of guys just like to tinker with guns and come up with something different.

 

[troy fairweather]

There's really a 4th level but it's not wise to try tho a few will try, a 400 grain bullet going any speed will kill any land animal you just have less drop with the hot loads.

 

[Roverguy]

I believe I once read an article by John Barnsness (Hand Loader mag) and he had a Siamese Mauser rebarreled in 30-40 that he was running them at factory 30-06 levels! Must be a strong action.

 

[DustyGmt]

I haven't been able to locate any LRP's but I did see a post from one of my semi local gun shops that had LRP's, Gold Medal Federals and they were pretty expensive but still alot less expensive than buying any factory offerings. I love my Henry 45-70 and can't wait to reload for it, it's alot of fun to shoot and damn accurate. I just really liked that Mauser and would like to have another 45-70 rifle, especially a bolt action.


(6) Old School - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/

 

[troy fairweather]

I've wanted for years to build a companion rifle for the 45-70, if 7.62x54r stayed cheap it would have been perfect for the Siamese maybe even a 7 mm wildcat using some of the rimmed rounds.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Personally, would love to have a Siamese Mauser in 45-70gvt. Just as a side note. I remember a few gunsmiths were also converting (Good actions) 91/30 Mosin Nagant to (3,4shot?) conversions. That'd be a fun rifle too.

 

[LoonWulf]

Personally, would love to have a Siamese Mauser in 45-70gvt. Just as a side note. I remember a few gunsmiths were also converting (Good actions) 91/30 Mosin Nagant to (3,4shot?) conversions. That'd be a fun rifle too.

Think......Tark might have a 45-70 single shot mosin...... someone on here does

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

For context, here's the story on the original Siamese actions:



Gibbs (and others) also produced Lee-Enfield conversions to .45-70.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61828
https://www.enfield-rifles.com/4570-conversions_topic4669.html

I think this fellow is shooting black powder loads:



This conversion makes sense when you think about where the Lee action came from -- the 45-70 Remington-Lee:

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ria-remington-lee-model-1879/

The challenge with all bolt-action 45-70 conversions is getting the magazine to feed reliably.

BTW, please do some serious soul searching before converting a Siamese Mauser that's still in original military trim -- so many conversions have been made that the originals in good condition are relatively rare items, and their value is appreciating. I'd recommend looking for a previously converted or sporterized action, preferably one that already feeds properly.

If you feel compelled to convert something, consider using a Lee Enfield instead -- there are far more of them, and enough have already been sporterized that a donor action would be far easier and cheaper to source. Sarco even offers a new-made 5-shot LE magazine (not sure which version) for 45-70:

https://www.sarcoinc.com/enfield-45-70-magazine-5-round/

 

[Mauser fan]

There is some excellent literature available on the subject too. Chapter 6 of Frank De Hass's book titled Bolt Action Rifles is dedicated entirely to the Siamese Mauser. It's definitely a good read. I am lucky enough to own a copy.

 

[Jim Watson]

I read a gunzine article of the time, describing a Siamese Mauser barreled for kinda sorta .22-250 Rimmed. Made by forming Krag brass in .22-250 dies. A bit less case capacity but near enough for a varmint hunter.

Mauser made actions with that slanted magazine for rimmed cartridges, too.
Here is one from Rigby.