Mauser K98 light primer strikes

[CZguy]

I bought one of the SOG 98K Mauser's that they recently had for sale. I'm having light primer strikes with it. So I ordered a new firing pin and spring from Numrich, but the ones they send me were worse than the ones I had.

Does anyone know of a good source for newly manufactured firing pins and springs?

 

[john323]

Might not be the F/P or spring.Did you check the headspace?

 

[rcmodel]

Also make sure the bolt body isn't packed full of old Cosmoline and dirt.

It could be the firing pin is not original to the gun and the safety flanges are hitting the inside front of the bolt at full travel.

Wolff sells new mainsprings of very high quality.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Rifles & Shotguns/MAUSER/1898/cID2/mID40/dID175

I would go with the lightest one they have, which is a 22 pound.

rc

 

[fguffey]

You have light primer strikes and ordered another firing pin and spring? and it, the problem did not improve. There is a chance if you order another set you will have three sets and still have the same problem.

I would take the bolt apart, strip the firing pin assembly then install the firing pin and check firing pin protrusion through the face of the bolt, I would then check the protrusion of the first firing pin protrusion, to improve protrusion clean the inside of the bolt. Knowing the protrusion of the firing pin installed and stripped will indicate protrusion when assembled in the uncocked/fired/ spring unloaded position.

Head space??? There is no need in discussing the unlikely event head space is causing light strikes, but, if that was my rifle and I had just purchased it I would know the head space before I chambered 'to fire' the first round.

Always feed the 98 Mauser from the magazine, never chamber a round then close the bolt. the Mauser is a controlled feed, not a push feed not a combo as in either or.

I do not have sensitive/soft primers, I have firing pins that crush the primer before the case, powder and bullet know their little buddy, the primer, has been crushed.

Again, I am a big fan of the forming die, I form 8mm57 cases from 30/06 that, when measured from the head of the case to the shoulder of the case, down to 1.827 at the case body shoulder juncture out to 1.948, that is .121 worth of head space in thousands. My presses, dies and shell holders are adjustable.

Again, I have fired 8mm57 in an 8/06 chamber, that is .121 + head space, that comes out to about .127 thousands difference between the length of the chamber and the length of the case without light primer strikes. Again I do not have sensitive/soft primers.

Do not rule out the extractor.

F. Guffey

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Do not rule out the extractor.

Why? What could the extractor have to do with light firingpin strikes?

 

[CZguy]

Before I posted the question I had cleaned the bolt assembly thoroughly. I didn't buy head-space gages because the bolt serial number matches the rifles.

The firing pin protrudes pretty far when I check it, so I went ahead and ordered a new Wolff spring.

I'll post the results when the spring arrives.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[fguffey]

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2009/01/mauser-firing-pin-protrusion-solving.html

"The firing pin protrudes pretty far" protrusion of the firing pin when installed in the bolt only and protrusion of the firing pin when the bolt is assembled and in the fired position is different. In the fired position the protrusion should be between .055 and .065 thousands.

Again I determine the difference in length between the chamber and case to be fired, again I would use gages but I do not shoot gages and chambering a go-gage only tells me what I already know, the bolt will close and when it does I still do not know the difference in length between the case and chamber.

The Mauser is a control feed, it is not designed to be feed by chambering a round first then close the bolt, you did not say how your were chambering cases to be fired.

Weak spring? More times than not a weak spring is sufficient to crush a primer but not able to prevent pressure from pushing the firing pin back, when the firing pin pressure is not sufficient to maintain the dent in the primer the primer becomes pierced? Or put another way the pressure inside the primer punched a hole in the primer when the firing pin was pushed back.

Spring pressure should be sufficient to hold the firing pin and force the primer to conform to the pins shape.

F. Guffey

http://www.huntnetwork.net/modules/wfsection/html/Ahit'S All in the Claw.pdf

 

[CZguy]

The Mauser is a control feed, it is not designed to be feed by chambering a round first then close the bolt, you did not say how your were chambering cases to be fired.

I didn't think that I needed to. I assumed that everyone knew a Mauser was controlled feed rather than push feed.

For the purposes of clarity, I'll try to me more succinct.

 

[fguffey]

It would be a mistake on my part to assume everyone knew the Mauser was a control feed design, if I had a problem with light primer strikes I would would choose from 25 + Mauser bolts, not something that can be discussed on the Internet but the spring pressure of the firing pin can be measured without removing the bolt.

F. Guffey

 

[CZguy]

It would be a mistake on my part to assume everyone knew the Mauser was a control feed design, if I had a problem with light primer strikes I would would choose from 25 + Mauser bolts, not something that can be discussed on the Internet but the spring pressure of the firing pin can be measured without removing the bolt.

F. Guffey

I agree with you that you, that you would choose a different course of action. Thank you for your understanding, that I chose a completely different approach. That's one of the things that make forums like this one fun.

 

[fguffey]

"The firing pin protrudes pretty far"

Different? I would know firing pin protrusion from the bolt face in thousands before I ordered another firing pin, if I did not know how to measure spring compression I would be at least be curious. My effort from the beginning was to help you avoid purchasing another part you do not need.

As it is always suggest with light firing pins strikes head space should always be one of the usual suspects, and I say there is no way a Mauser can have enough head space to cause light firing pin strikes, again I have fired Mauser's with .127 thousands head space, cases after having been fired were ejected with short necks, the cases after firing were ejected with long case bodies. Not easy to keep up with but it is claimed by prolific posters excessive head space causes case head separation, if you are keeping up I just said it did not, again, then there is Hatcher with .080 thousands head space fire forming cases.

I would not keep replacing springs until the problem was overcome with a more powerful spring, a weak spring will bust the primer, it will not prevent pierced primers.

F. Guffey

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2009/01/mauser-firing-pin-protrusion-solving.html

There is a small chance information posted to benefit you may have no value to you, not a problem, on the outside chance there are others outside the choir reading this information could help someone.

F. Guffey

 

[critter]

You didn't mention ammo. I have several old 98's in various stages of preservation. I have SOME surplus ammo that will not usually fire the first time in any of them due to really hard primers. It will almost always fire the second time-called by C&R folks 'double-click' ammo. Good surplus, commercial or reloaded ammo works wonderfully in them all.

Be sure it isn't your ammo. Try some different types.

 

[fguffey]

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2009/0...n-solving.html

Critter, correct, the link above has been posted twice, the introduction starts with "light primer strikes" and covers ammo, I never know what information gets through and I never know if the answer has been worked out before the question was asked.



F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

There was a group at the range bashing R-P new ammo, a shooter with a new rifle and two boxes of new R-P ammo had 5 of 20 rounds fail to fire, the 5 that did not fire were given additional chances with the new rifle then 2 more chances in other 30/06 rifles, in all the primers were struck at least 5 times, a friend called me from the range, before he had a chance to start, I told him to contact Remington, anyhow, with the course these things take that did not happen and he shows up here, I used chamber gages (my chamber gages), Wilson case gages, my home made stuff, feeler gages and started. I was impressed with the 5 rounds that did not fire, weight of case, powder bullet and primer. I was impressed with the 15 cases that did fire, with a small amount of thumb pressure all 15 fit my chamber gage. All 15 looked great in the Wilson case gage and the home made stuff.

THEN! I reinstalled the dented, failed to fire primers back into the came cases they came from, chambered the case with the primer only into one of my M1917 primer crusher rifles and fired all 5 primers one after the other, and I believe had I been at the range with one of the of the M1917s the results would have been the same, after 5 failed attempts with other rifles the M1917 would have fired all 5 failed to fire rounds. The dents in the 5 cases were not timid firing pin dents, the dents were large, again I never know what information gets through or what information is ignored, provoking someone to think is not something I have perfected, I am getting better at provoking, thinking seems to be an option, back to the dents in the primer being huge, when the primer ignites pressure in the primer increases, the increase inside the primer causes the primer to conform to the firing pin, conforming to the firing pin reduces the size of the dent.

And the nice thing about my M1917 busting the primer with out bullet or powder, the reduced weight had no effect on the primer/firing pin relationship, the primer was crushed before the case knew it's little buddy' the primer' knew it was struck, as opposed to the firing pin driving the primer, case, bullet and powder to the front of the chamber before the firing pin crushes the primer, back to the nice thing, my primers did not protrude from the head of the case when ejected.

F. Guffey

 

[sage5907]

Hey CZguy, I had a firing problem with a FN Supreme action that hardly dented a Remington 9 1/2 primer and I replaced the spring with a Mauser Timney Speedlock spring Timney Part No. 701 and now the firing pin really puts a dent in the primer. Really quick lock time and fires every time. In case your new spring doesn't work try the Timney spring. BW

 

[CZguy]

You didn't mention ammo. I have several old 98's in various stages of preservation. I have SOME surplus ammo that will not usually fire the first time in any of them due to really hard primers. It will almost always fire the second time-called by C&R folks 'double-click' ammo. Good surplus, commercial or reloaded ammo works wonderfully in them all.

Be sure it isn't your ammo. Try some different types.

The ammo I was using was all that I had on hand at the time. 1950s Romanian, which is well known for having hard primers. My thinking though is that a military rifle like a K98 should be able to fire hard primers.

I gave each of ten shells three chances, The firing pin indentations are hard enough to fire commercial ammo, but I want to fix it to fire with whatever is on hand.