P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
My friends - the very best of luck - I am watching on the sidelines but with you in spirit. 
Md - Maryland Gun Bill Day
- Thread starter Spot77
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DelayedReaction
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
- Messages
- 645
I'll be there. Look for the dude who's 6'9" and answers to Kevin.
jrhines
Member
The elder Rhines and Funger will be there, looking forward to it.
DelayedReaction
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
- Messages
- 645
Assuming this makes it out of committee, what is the next step (and what are our chances)?
Ugh, no basketball for me. Still aching from the flu.
...And they made a movie about me and basketball some years ago.....called something like, "Angry Gun Owners Can't Jump" or something......
See you all in a while. Pack a snack - it'll be a long day.
...And they made a movie about me and basketball some years ago.....called something like, "Angry Gun Owners Can't Jump" or something......
See you all in a while. Pack a snack - it'll be a long day.
nico
Member
Any updates.
I'm affraid from the lack of triumphant posts in this thread that it didn't go well
I'm affraid from the lack of triumphant posts in this thread that it didn't go well
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Wondering also!!
10:45 and I JUST GOT HOME. The people travelling from the far reaches of the state won't get home till' after midnight.
It went WELL.
The transport bill looks like it'll pass with no problems.
The CCW bill went very well with NO opposition from the Gun Ban crowd.
Massad Ayoob testified for us and I think he made an impact.
My personal feeling is that the AWB is DEAD. Chairman Vallario was scolding the bill's sponsor about something - I couldn't hear what it was about, but Del Quinter (The AWB sponsor) did NOT look happy after that. We have a majority on the Senate JPR that SHOULD prevent an AWB from getting out for a full vote.
We had a crowd of at least 150 gunnies there. I tried to count, but that was the best I could do.
There MAY have been close to 10 anti's there. And they used the same tired lies as last year. Delegat Smiegel JUMPED ALL IN THEIR CRAP when they tried the "But the FBI says 1 in 5 cops are murdered with assault weapons" lie.
Norton and I spent almost 10 hours there today, along with DelayedReaction, MikeK, Girlwithagun, Cliff, Greg M, and a few other THR members that I probably missed.
More tomorrow, after a good night's sleep!
It went WELL.
The transport bill looks like it'll pass with no problems.
The CCW bill went very well with NO opposition from the Gun Ban crowd.
Massad Ayoob testified for us and I think he made an impact.
My personal feeling is that the AWB is DEAD. Chairman Vallario was scolding the bill's sponsor about something - I couldn't hear what it was about, but Del Quinter (The AWB sponsor) did NOT look happy after that. We have a majority on the Senate JPR that SHOULD prevent an AWB from getting out for a full vote.
We had a crowd of at least 150 gunnies there. I tried to count, but that was the best I could do.
There MAY have been close to 10 anti's there. And they used the same tired lies as last year. Delegat Smiegel JUMPED ALL IN THEIR CRAP when they tried the "But the FBI says 1 in 5 cops are murdered with assault weapons" lie.
Norton and I spent almost 10 hours there today, along with DelayedReaction, MikeK, Girlwithagun, Cliff, Greg M, and a few other THR members that I probably missed.
More tomorrow, after a good night's sleep!
Greg M
Member
I think it went well . I got home at 10:00 p.m. and I live 15 minutes away. I grabbed some dinner and I guess I'm the first (ok, second because Spot77 types faster) one to report. It was a LONG day. Vallario was good about giving people time to talk. It helped that a lot of people kept their comments short. Neil Quinter made a fool of himself by quoting the 1 in 5 lie. He was busted on that big-time by Delegates Smiegle and McMillian. Leah was there looking especially ugly (ok, I guess I should refrain from the personal attacks 
). I had a seat so someone else will need to report on how many people were in the hall. It sounded like a big crowd out there. There was a lot of good testimony for right-to-carry. None against, but that might be because people think it has no chance.
. I got home at 10:00 p.m. and I live 15 minutes away. I grabbed some dinner and I guess I'm the first (ok, second because Spot77 types faster) one to report. It was a LONG day. Vallario was good about giving people time to talk. It helped that a lot of people kept their comments short. Neil Quinter made a fool of himself by quoting the 1 in 5 lie. He was busted on that big-time by Delegates Smiegle and McMillian. Leah was there looking especially ugly (ok, I guess I should refrain from the personal attacks ). I had a seat so someone else will need to report on how many people were in the hall. It sounded like a big crowd out there. There was a lot of good testimony for right-to-carry. None against, but that might be because people think it has no chance.Heh, heh....the reason no one has posted is because they aren't home yet. I live in Annapolis and just got home at 10:30pm (stopped for a quick drink with Spot77).
My estimation is that we hit ball out of the park on all accounts.
Predictions:
AWB will die a painful death. Neil Quinter was embarrassed like 'lil Rob Garagiola a few weeks ago. We shut him down, some of the Delegates shut him down and his Ceasefire MD cronies left him out to dry. The Gail Gunn creature put up a tepid testimony as did the VPC robot. The Maryland State Police came out in opposition (once again) to the bill saying that it would not affect crime.
CCW Bill: Will at least get a vote in the committee and MAY get out of committee for a floor vote. This would be a major victory in and of itself.
Transport Bill: Will pass and we will gain the ability to stop and take a leak while transporting our firearms.
There were NO individuals there to speak on behalf of the anti positions and I pointed that out each of the three times I testified. Everyone who spoke on their behalf was a police officer (the government) or a paid anti-gun lobbyist. The Gail Gunn creature spewed forth that 70% of Marylanders favored the AWB. When I got up to speak, I asked where they were......the only people in the room were those who were pro-gun.
Chairman Vallerio was unbelievably patient and fair today. He is not pro gun but he is at least equitable. After watching him tell Quinter to go sit down, I suspect the whole reason that he drug the whole day out was to punish Quinter for bringing in yet another loser bill.
We done good today folks!
My estimation is that we hit ball out of the park on all accounts.
Predictions:
AWB will die a painful death. Neil Quinter was embarrassed like 'lil Rob Garagiola a few weeks ago. We shut him down, some of the Delegates shut him down and his Ceasefire MD cronies left him out to dry. The Gail Gunn creature put up a tepid testimony as did the VPC robot. The Maryland State Police came out in opposition (once again) to the bill saying that it would not affect crime.
CCW Bill: Will at least get a vote in the committee and MAY get out of committee for a floor vote. This would be a major victory in and of itself.
Transport Bill: Will pass and we will gain the ability to stop and take a leak while transporting our firearms.
There were NO individuals there to speak on behalf of the anti positions and I pointed that out each of the three times I testified. Everyone who spoke on their behalf was a police officer (the government) or a paid anti-gun lobbyist. The Gail Gunn creature spewed forth that 70% of Marylanders favored the AWB. When I got up to speak, I asked where they were......the only people in the room were those who were pro-gun.
Chairman Vallerio was unbelievably patient and fair today. He is not pro gun but he is at least equitable. After watching him tell Quinter to go sit down, I suspect the whole reason that he drug the whole day out was to punish Quinter for bringing in yet another loser bill.
We done good today folks!
Great Job Guys and Girls!
Spot et al,
GREAT JOB!!! I'm on travel and have been impatiently wondering all day how things went.....
My gratitude to all of you who made it to Annapolis, and those of us unable to be there owe you a debt of gratitude.
Look forward to more details after all of you get some well-deserved rest!
Michael
Spot et al,
GREAT JOB!!! I'm on travel and have been impatiently wondering all day how things went.....
My gratitude to all of you who made it to Annapolis, and those of us unable to be there owe you a debt of gratitude.
Look forward to more details after all of you get some well-deserved rest!
Michael
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Guys - KUDOS ... and my profound salutes to you. What a long and I'd guess darned tiring day. I am proud of you all.
And the AWB seeming pretty limp - also great.
I just gotta say it again - so damn proud of you all.
Scott - Outstanding!
And the AWB seeming pretty limp - also great.
I just gotta say it again - so damn proud of you all.
nico
Member
I just want to thank you folks for pulling the weight for those of us who couldn't make it (and the people who don't care but would still take advantage of the laws you're pushing for). I promise if I ever get out of school, I'll do everything I can to help and until then I'll write as many letters as I can type.
Any news on the ballistic fingerprinting bill?
btw, what's the deal with Purtillo not including HB1211 in the Tripwire Alert he posted today? Is there some infighting going on between him and MSI or something? I thought it was awesome when I found out that a professor at UM was one of the main pro-gun activists in the state, but based on the info on his site, it seems like he's more concerned with maintaining the status quo than making any progress. If somebody wouldn't mind cluing me in but doesn't want to be seen as mudslinging, could you pm me? (or should I start a new thread to discuss this?)
Any news on the ballistic fingerprinting bill?
btw, what's the deal with Purtillo not including HB1211 in the Tripwire Alert he posted today? Is there some infighting going on between him and MSI or something? I thought it was awesome when I found out that a professor at UM was one of the main pro-gun activists in the state, but based on the info on his site, it seems like he's more concerned with maintaining the status quo than making any progress. If somebody wouldn't mind cluing me in but doesn't want to be seen as mudslinging, could you pm me? (or should I start a new thread to discuss this?)
Greg M
Member
Purtillo thinks that pushing a concealed carry bill will give the anti-gunners a vehicle for an AWB (he thinks the bill will be amended into something totally different than how it started). Some people suggest that he might be jealous that a new group of activists is stealing his thunder. He does a lot of good work and he has a HUGE mailing list. BTW, I don't think I saw him there today. Oh well.
Cliff
Member
When Gail Gunn was speaking against the ballistic fingerprinting bill, her voice became shrill while trying to make the point that the head of the Maryland State Police had a personal interest in the bill passing. Chairman Vallerio bitchslapped her asap by saying there will be no personal attacks against anybody, just speak for or against the bill. He zeroed in on her while saying that. I should have bet money her asinine little mouth was gonna get her into trouble,I could have bought drinks for everybody.
Dr. Purtillo was there for at least the first part of the hearing. I'm not sure as to when he left.
Some of the things between MSI and Tripwire that have been stated by Greg have been a problem in the PAST. I spent a whole day trying to get to the bottom of the issue and writing emails back and forth between all concerned parties. There was the fear that MSI would trade off the AWB for the sake of the CCW bill and that there was deliberate collusion on the part of the MSI leadership to do so.
I came to the conclusion that this was a misunderstanding and told Dr. Purtillo so.
I think that MSI demonstrated their firm opposition to any AWB as they were amongst the most vocal opponents of both the Senate and House versions of the bill.
In the next update to his site, there was at least no negative comments on the CCW bill and, if I recall correctly, a tepid positive report on it. That's about as much a 180 degree shift from where it was as can be.
Tripwire is a vital part of gun rights activism in Maryland and I support them financially, just as I support all gun rights organizations in MD. It is dangerous for us to get split over any one issue. We have been hearing (with much glee) that there is a rift going on in the Ceasefire MR ranks (which may explain their very poor showing yesterday), yet we are in danger of allowing the same thing to happen to us.
Folks, we are on the verge of doing great things here in this state. If we can beat off this AWB again this year and get a clean CCW at least to the floor for a vote we will have done more than anyone thought that we could.
nico,
The IBIS system is dead, I feel comfortable saying that. It is dead in a practical sense because of lack of funding and I think that since even the MSP is asking for it to go away it will go away legislatively as well.
Some of the things between MSI and Tripwire that have been stated by Greg have been a problem in the PAST. I spent a whole day trying to get to the bottom of the issue and writing emails back and forth between all concerned parties. There was the fear that MSI would trade off the AWB for the sake of the CCW bill and that there was deliberate collusion on the part of the MSI leadership to do so.
I came to the conclusion that this was a misunderstanding and told Dr. Purtillo so.
I think that MSI demonstrated their firm opposition to any AWB as they were amongst the most vocal opponents of both the Senate and House versions of the bill.
In the next update to his site, there was at least no negative comments on the CCW bill and, if I recall correctly, a tepid positive report on it. That's about as much a 180 degree shift from where it was as can be.
Tripwire is a vital part of gun rights activism in Maryland and I support them financially, just as I support all gun rights organizations in MD. It is dangerous for us to get split over any one issue. We have been hearing (with much glee) that there is a rift going on in the Ceasefire MR ranks (which may explain their very poor showing yesterday), yet we are in danger of allowing the same thing to happen to us.
Folks, we are on the verge of doing great things here in this state. If we can beat off this AWB again this year and get a clean CCW at least to the floor for a vote we will have done more than anyone thought that we could.
nico,
The IBIS system is dead, I feel comfortable saying that. It is dead in a practical sense because of lack of funding and I think that since even the MSP is asking for it to go away it will go away legislatively as well.
Gunfyter
Member
Wow, what WONDERFUL news. I think you guys and girls did an outstanding job and once again did the firearms owners of Maryland proud. I'd have been there but I had nasal surgery last Thursday and yesterday I got the packing and splints removed.We may not get CCW this year, but sooner or later we'll prevail. I'm proud to stand with each and everyone of you.
Today's article on the IBIS system from the Sun:
House weighs ballistics database
State police head testifies to committee on report calling system ineffective
By Anica Butler
Sun Staff
Originally published March 10, 2005
The head of the Maryland State Police testified yesterday that a mandate to collect ballistics information hasn't helped solve crimes, while advocates of the law blamed the state police for its ineffectiveness.
In a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee, Col. Thomas E. "Tim" Hutchins would not say whether he personally supports a bill that would repeal the law. But he testified about a state police report that calls the Integrated Ballistics Identification System, or IBIS, expensive and ineffective.
As a result of that September 2004 report, Del. Joan Cadden, an Anne Arundel Democrat, sponsored a bill that would repeal the law requiring the collection of the ballistics information.
IBIS was created in 2000 to amass a database of ballistic markers by requiring gun manufacturers to test-fire them and submit the cartridge casings to state police. Technicians then make a digital image of the unique markings and enter them into the database for future comparison. The markings often are referred to as "ballistic fingerprints."
Hutchins testified yesterday that 43,729 casings have been entered into IBIS, and the database has been used 208 times. Six "hits" have resulted from those inquiries, but none resulted in criminal prosecutions. In four years, $2.5 million has been spent on IBIS, Hutchins said.
Teresa M. Long, assistant director of the state police forensic sciences division, said flawed information from gun manufacturers also is a problem.
IBIS advocates, however, are opposed to the bill.
"We know that these databases take time to get running," said Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence.
Horwitz said the problems noted in the state police report can be remedied. Another advocate, Casey Anderson of CeaseFire Maryland, said the state police also should seek permission to link IBIS to the federal ballistics database.
If police agencies could send ballistics information to state police through the federal database -- rather than driving the information to state police headquarters in Pikesville -- more agencies would take advantage of the database, Anderson said.
Robert A. Ricker, a former attorney for the National Rifle Association, said he believes that state police are loath to make the changes necessary for IBIS to work. He pointed to the low number of inquiries as an example.
"If you don't use the system," Ricker said, "it isn't going to work."
The bill had not been scheduled for a vote.
House weighs ballistics database
State police head testifies to committee on report calling system ineffective
By Anica Butler
Sun Staff
Originally published March 10, 2005
The head of the Maryland State Police testified yesterday that a mandate to collect ballistics information hasn't helped solve crimes, while advocates of the law blamed the state police for its ineffectiveness.
In a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee, Col. Thomas E. "Tim" Hutchins would not say whether he personally supports a bill that would repeal the law. But he testified about a state police report that calls the Integrated Ballistics Identification System, or IBIS, expensive and ineffective.
As a result of that September 2004 report, Del. Joan Cadden, an Anne Arundel Democrat, sponsored a bill that would repeal the law requiring the collection of the ballistics information.
IBIS was created in 2000 to amass a database of ballistic markers by requiring gun manufacturers to test-fire them and submit the cartridge casings to state police. Technicians then make a digital image of the unique markings and enter them into the database for future comparison. The markings often are referred to as "ballistic fingerprints."
Hutchins testified yesterday that 43,729 casings have been entered into IBIS, and the database has been used 208 times. Six "hits" have resulted from those inquiries, but none resulted in criminal prosecutions. In four years, $2.5 million has been spent on IBIS, Hutchins said.
Teresa M. Long, assistant director of the state police forensic sciences division, said flawed information from gun manufacturers also is a problem.
IBIS advocates, however, are opposed to the bill.
"We know that these databases take time to get running," said Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence.
Horwitz said the problems noted in the state police report can be remedied. Another advocate, Casey Anderson of CeaseFire Maryland, said the state police also should seek permission to link IBIS to the federal ballistics database.
If police agencies could send ballistics information to state police through the federal database -- rather than driving the information to state police headquarters in Pikesville -- more agencies would take advantage of the database, Anderson said.
Robert A. Ricker, a former attorney for the National Rifle Association, said he believes that state police are loath to make the changes necessary for IBIS to work. He pointed to the low number of inquiries as an example.
"If you don't use the system," Ricker said, "it isn't going to work."
The bill had not been scheduled for a vote.
Greg M
Member
Thanks for the clarification, Norton. If I had ever believed that MSI would intentionally trade an AWB for CCW, I wouldn't have gotten active with the group. That is a real misunderstanding.
I think IBIS will definitly be killed because without funding, the MSP are currently "non-compliant" with the law. If I remember right (I could look it up, but I'm still waking up) IBIS was one of Cease Fire MD's top two priorities
.nico, don't feel bad about "just" writing letters! I felt that I had to get up and say a few words about the right-to-carry bill because I'm a MSI volunteer, but I'm not a good public speaker and I realized yesterday that I can apply my abilities in other ways to help the right-to-carry effort. Other people are good speakers and so it doesn't make sense for me to get up there and waste time fumbling for the right words. There are many different ways that we can help the effort
.Greg
Greg M
Member
Wasn't it pretty clear that he was testifying for the repeal of the law or was I delerious from hunger??
And the funny thing was that he allowed our people to bust on Quinter
!Oh, and one more thing -- that is the last time I cede the front row to the anti-gunners. I tend not to grab a front row seat and then Leah comes in, goes straight to the front and saves as many seats in a row as possible. We need to spread out when we get there so it looks like one big sea of gun-rights people as people fill the seats.
Greg
I think that the hair that he was splitting was that he was NOT imparting his personal opinion into the debate, but rather was reporting on the findings of the report produced by the MSP.
The MSP is always very careful about adopting a "just the facts, ma'am" attitude when testifying on any of these bills. Hutchins made a point of saying that he was only there to support the recommendations of the legislative oversight committee which has advocated the elimination of IBIS.
Something that just occured to me (actually it was last night when Spot77 and I were leaving Galway Bay):
Does anyone have a hypothesis as to why Ceasefire MD and VPC made such a poor showing yesterday?
Leah was uncharacteristically brief and sedate in her remarks, as was Josh Horowitiz. Leah didn't even dress for the day......if I were on the Board of Directors and paying her $32k annual salary, I would demand that she present a professional demeanor/dress when representing that organization.
I hope that this is just a sign of their concession that they are not going to win anything this year rather than it being a sign that they are convinced that they have things sewed up.
Does anyone have a hypothesis as to why Ceasefire MD and VPC made such a poor showing yesterday?
Leah was uncharacteristically brief and sedate in her remarks, as was Josh Horowitiz. Leah didn't even dress for the day......if I were on the Board of Directors and paying her $32k annual salary, I would demand that she present a professional demeanor/dress when representing that organization.
I hope that this is just a sign of their concession that they are not going to win anything this year rather than it being a sign that they are convinced that they have things sewed up.
Ohen Cepel
Member
Thanks to all of you who were there to fight the good fight!!
Greg M
Member
Yeah what color were those God-awful jeans, anyway
???Geez, I hope it's not because they're so confident it will pass
.- Status
