Me, TC, and the 460S&W Mag

[Jinzoningen80]

I’m hoping this info will prove valuable because I sure could have used it in December. Nevertheless, I’ve spent a good deal of cash and time working up some loads and going back and forth to the range so I hope I can save some others from having to do the same. For xmas I bought myself a 460 S&W magnum barrel for my TC encore rifle. It is 20” long and has iron sights. I was intrigued by the ballistics and the fact that I can also shoot .45 Colt and .454 Casull out of it. I’d settled on the 300gr XTP Mag as my primary hunting bullet, mostly because of price, but I also wanted to work up some cheap (that means lead bullets) plinking loads.

Let me apologize in advance for the Excel charts not formatting correctly in the forum.

I began with the XTP Mag loads. The 2 suitable powders I had on hand were Alliant 2400 and Hodgdon H-110. Alliant’s website lists a load of 36 grains of 2400 and Hodgdon’s website lists a range of 38 - 42.5gr of H-110. So I headed to the range with the following loads worked up:

LOAD case BULLET BLT GR. POWDER PWDR GRN speed
460010 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 34.0 2015
460011 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 36.0 2054
460012 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 38.0 2129
460014 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 H110 40.0
460015 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 H110 41.0
460016 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 H110 42.0

It was quite a shock to fire such a powerful round in such a small gun for the first time and to me it felt comparible to a 12-guage 3” slug but there was a problem… I could not get on paper. At 50 yards, the POI was about a foot below the POA with the rear sight maxed out. At this point I had to decide whether I should buy a new front sight that I could file down (it has a Williams glow-bead) or slow the load down. I tried a few optics including an aimpoint, a zeiss 3-9x scope, and even my ACOG hoping something would line up but it wasn’t happening and then I noticed something else. I was having case-head separations after only 5 reloads. Clearly these loads needed to be slowed down but by how much? I just randomly selected the following loads to try:
LOAD case BULLET BLT GR. POWDER PWDR GRN
460047 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 24.0
460048 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 26.0
460049 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 28.0
460050 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 H110 30.0
460051 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 H110 31.0
460052 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 H110 32.0

All 3 of the 2400 loads were on paper but I was having sporadic ignition with the H110. Speeds were all over the place and at one time a squib load stuck a bullet in the bore. After ejecting the case, a big chunk of unburned powder fell out and clogged up my action so that I had to detail-strip the gun. I was not happy and decided to remove H110 from further testing.
Since I was on paper, I decided to push the envelope to see how fast I could go while still staying within the window of the sights. I came up with the following:

460149 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 28.0 1771
460150 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 30.0 1884
460151 460 Hornady XTP Mag 300 2400 32.0 1943

I decided to stick with the middle load because it shot a very nice group and I was settled. Now I had to find a cheap lead bullet load that would hopefully shoot to the same POA/POI as the XTP. I was doubtful because I knew it would be unlikely I could shoot a lead bullet at these speeds without a gas-check but I started with missouri’s 300gr lead bullet and worked up the following loads:
LOAD case BULLET BLT GR. POWDER PWDR GRN
460002 460 Missouri 300 2400 34.0 leading
460003 460 Missouri 300 2400 36.0 leading
460004 460 Missouri 300 2400 38.0 leading
460006 460 Missouri 300 H110 38.0 leading
460007 460 Missouri 300 H110 40.0 leading
460008 460 Missouri 300 H110 42.0 leading

Severe leading all over but not unexpected. So just like the XTP I slowed them down:
460041 460 Missouri 300 2400 24.0 leading
460042 460 Missouri 300 2400 26.0 leading
460043 460 Missouri 300 2400 28.0 leading



And slower still:
460141 460 missouri 300 2400 18.0 leading
460142 460 missouri 300 2400 20.0 leading
460143 460 missouri 300 2400 22.0 leading

It wasn’t happening so I looked at some other bullets I had on hand. I had a small amount of mastercast 240gr WC bullets and managed to work up the following load:
460019 460 mastercast 250 2400 27.0 1641

I was impressed to say the least at this lead bullet going 1641 and leaving me NO leading. Unfortunately I ran out of these bullets for the time being and looked at what else I had. I will follow up on this load later this month

I had some TNT 250gr FN on hand so I thought I’d try them:
460018 460 TNT 250 2400 25.0 slight leading
460019 460 TNT 250 2400 27.0 Leading

A little too fast. Let’s go slower:
460121 460 TNT 250 2400 20.0
460122 460 TNT 250 2400 22.0
460123 460 TNT 250 2400 24.0 slight leading

I found the sweet spot where the leading went away but a new problem arose… highly-sporadic speed variation. For instance the 25gr load had an average speed of 1419 but a SD of 162! These loads would not work due to the cavernous case capacity and 2400 apparently being location specific.
I was about to give up on lead bullets when I remembered that can of trailboss I had stashed away after trying a few .45 colt loads… after all, this powder was designed for these large capacity cases. I also gave titegroup a chance after reading some loads on handloads.com. Off to the range I went with this:
LOAD case BULLET BLT GR. POWDER PWDR GRN leading speed
460062 460 mastercast 230 titegroup 18.0 excessive 1829.00
460067 460 mastercast 230 trailboss 14.0 none 1337.00
460069 460 mastercast 230 trailboss 18.0 slight 1466.00
460074 460 TNT 250 titegroup 18.0 excessive 1817.00
460079 460 TNT 250 trailboss 14.0 none 1311.00
460081 460 TNT 250 trailboss 18.0 slight 1387.00

Needless to say I was thrilled to see those trailboss loads not only leave a clean bore but have consistent speeds. I had finally found my pinking powder but I just needed to iron out the details and find the best bullet to use.
LOAD case BULLET BLT GR. POWDER PWDR GRN speed leading
460067 460 mastercast 230 trailboss 14.0 1327none
460068 460 mastercast 230 trailboss 16.0 1384 slight
460079 460 TNT 250 trailboss 14.0 1299 slight
460080 460 TNT 250 trailboss 16.0 1346 slight
460082 460 missouri 300 trailboss 14.0 1210 heavy
460083 460 missouri 300 trailboss 16.0 1276 heavy
460084 460 missouri keith 250 trailboss 14.0 1266 slight
460085 460 missouri keith 250 trailboss 16.0 1349 slight

These loads all hit approximately a foot above the XTP load but they are still within the sight-window allowing me to adjust the sights for the lead loads then back for the XTP. I could try and slow the loads down and reduce the leading for the other bullets but the slower they go, the higher they hit from my POA so for now, I’ll be using the 230gr bullets. I’ll repeat this test with more mastercast bullets after I pick them up at a gunshow later this month. I plan to try both their new 255gr keith bullet and some 200gr SWCs.

As an aside, I tried several .45Colt loads and EVERY lead bullet fired from a .45colt case caused leading of the bore. This is not surprising because there is considerable freebore when using 45LC brass in the magnum chamber. Firing a 250gr XTP load in .45LC brass at around 1200 fps was fairly accurate but hit way too high and was slightly outside my sight-window. It wouldn't be a very economical load anyway.

I also purchased some factory Hornady 200gr flex-tip loads to try out and these bad boys SCREAMED from the 20” barrel at 2780fps!!! Yeah I double checked it… a .45 caliber bullet going faster than my .223 77gr load. There is also a tremendous muzzle flash and concussion and I would NOT want to shoot these from a handgun. They do, however, shoot to nearly the same POI as the 300Gr XTP going at 1884. So the choice load will come down to terminal performance and I’m preparing a wet-newspaper test. This test will also compare 300gr XTP (not mag) because accuracy testing shows no difference between the 2 bullets. I'm worried about some of these bullets exploding on impact at these speeds. I’ve also tried crimping vs not (since this is a single-shot) and found that with a crimp, I get slightly less deviation in my speeds so I will be using a crimp and 2400. Update pending.

 

[Jinzoningen80]

Update

Well I finally stacked up enough newspaper to conduct the test (turns out I needed a lot less than I thought I would.) The wet stack was about 15” thick and I fired from about 20 yards away.

Counterclockwise from the upper left, the holes are from the factory Hornady 200gr flex tip, reloads using 30gr of 2400 for a speed of about 1900fps using the standard 300gr XTP, and the same loads using the 300gr XTP MAG bullet.
Penetration:
None of the rounds penetrated the full stack of paper.
XTPMAG - 12”
XTP – 9”
Flextip - 6”
Also worth noting is the huge channel caused by the flextip’s explosive expansion.


Weight retention:
300gr XTPMAG – 256gr
300gr XTP - 279gr
200gr Flextip - 113gr

The recovered XTPMAG:



The recovered XTP




The recovered Flextip



Size comparison, L to R - XTP, XTPMAG, Flextip:


Based on this test, I’ll be using the standard XTPs. If I was hunting grizzly or buffalo, I’d go with the magnum for better penetration but on the thin skinned whitetail I’ll be shooting, the standard XTP not only expanded more, but maintained more weight (not to mention, it’s cheaper). The flextips are just too fragile for the speeds they reach out of my 20” barrel. While this comparative test gave exactly the results I expected, I have a new question:
How many inches of wet newspaper translate into how many inches of chest cavity?

In order to get a better idea, I used a second newspaper stack of equal size and fired some other calibers into them:
308: I fired factory Remington 180gr core-lokt (a good elk load) I didn’t chronograph but I was only 20 yards away so I can imagine it was going pretty fast. This was the 2nd deepest penetrator of the test making it 11” - the recovered bullet weighed 150gr

357Mag: oddly enough, the deepest penetrator was a 158gr hard cast lead SWC traveling at 1400fps. It made it 12” but I could not recover any bullet. I found only a few small lead fragments along the path.
I also fired factory federal premium with 158gr hydrashock. These bullets made it 9” but the recovered bullet looked more like a wadcutter. The hollowpoint pedals completely sheared off and the final weight was 116gr.


I also fired some handloads using a 158gr xtp going around 1200fps. This bullet made it 6” and mushroomed decently. The weight was 153gr

 

[Jinzoningen80]

223: I fired both 55gr FMJ and 77gr SMKs at 2900 and 2800 fps respectively. I took a lot of pix of these because I plan to post this at ARFCOM too.
Anyway the 55gr made it 10” and weighed 46gr. I was surprised by the lack of fragmentation


The 77gr made it 7” with major fragmentation. I found the nose at 5” and all together, I scrounged up 49gr worth of leftovers.

Disregarding the two holes on the right, the hole on the far left is the 55gr, the hole just right of that is the 77gr. In all these photos, 55 will be left and 77 will be right.
entry:

2 inches 77gr already starting to yaw:

55gr still flying straight but 77 doin some damage


3inches - 55gr starting to yaw

4inches: keyholing by the 55 and fragmentation by the 77:

5" i found the tip of the 77gr

6 inches:


And a final size comparison

 

[Scrapperz]

Excellent info thank you for sharing. I'm very interested in this kind of testing.