Mechanics of the double action trigger pull

[ATLDave]

It's funny how both too-negative and too-positive self-images can get in the way of better performance in just about anything. I think it's important to realize that most competitive environments tend to be well to the right of center on the bell curve - it is realistically possible (indeed, exceedingly common) to be both "better than average" at some activity, and be nowhere close to being capable of regularly winning in serious competitions.

Most people who attend more than a couple of USPSA or even IDPA matches are far better handgun shooters than the average handgun owner/user. I don't find it difficult to feel pretty good about my overall shooting skill level vis-a-vis the population as a whole while recognizing that I'm nowhere close to the very top guys.

 

[Johnm1]

but make sure you put the mental effort into it; otherwise, you're just practicing a bad habit.

first set goals, second work diligently towards meeting the goals and third, convince yourself that you have the ability to accomplish your goals. Mr. Borland, you are correct, it is the mental aspect that needs to be trained just as much as the

But if there is a desire to do something then by all means first convince yourself that you can do it then proceed to prove it to yourself that it is possible

It seems to me that we could be discussing any topic in life and the above would hold true.

I will freely admit to falling into some (maybe most) of the above mentioned traps/bad habits. I think my curiosity as to why has been satisfied. Maybe it's the smaller grip fitting my smaller hands better or naturally putting my hands in a better position. Maybe it's the design of the Colt trigger, Maybe, possibly likely, it is a combination of all of the above.

There has been some very good information posted here from some very knowledgeable people. I need to acknowledge what I have read so far and see how to incorporate it. I have the advantage of some very good schools here in Arizona and I have been thinking of enrolling in some intermediate classes. I wonder if Gunsite has a re olver class?

One thing I learned early on, I'm 58, is that my greatest improvement came while competing Both in slow fire pistol silhouette and in High Power rifle. I have never been competitive at the highest level but have always improved.

 

[thomas15]

John,

Just a few thoughts...

Part of this discussion has been devoted to the actual gun. The Grip. The trigger. The sights. The stance. The ammo. The attitude.

All of these things are important but changing one or two may not give the desired result. Not that I'm the center of all things but I have been told by veteran revolver shooters that My gun is too big for my hands, My grips are too big, My grip isn't correct, My stance is awkward, I flinch, My trigger is too heavy and so forth. I am probably shooting a gun that is a tad too big for me but I have overcome this to an certain extent by sheer stubbornness. I simply refuse to go down in flames.

I haven't taken any kind of intensive shooting course. I'm not trying to say do it or don't do it I personally have no experience with them. My personal opinion is that throwing the kitchen sink at someone over a few days is maybe not such a good idea for ME because I like to develop my skills over time. I think I would do better committing to live fire 200 rounds every week for a year with that kind of money and put some money into my revolver and maybe shoot a few ICORE matches and make friends with others that shoot revolver and learn that way. I am very lucky in that I have access to a number of very high level revolver shooters and I do get tips or a critique from that connection but the main thing is the inspiration of seeing top level shooters become one with the gun is hard to describe the effect that has.

I have spent an afternoon with an instructor in a group setting and I did get a lot out of it. But at that point I knew basically what areas I wanted to train in.

I have set up a dry fire range in my garage. I use reduced size targets and a shot timer with par settings. I keep track of my times and I run my dry fire exactly like a match. I use the exact same equipment including ear protection. Yes it is boring but it has taken me from 36% to 80% in less than 2 years. This would have seemed totally impossible 2 years ago. I am by the way 60 myself, been shooting handguns for about 6 years, revolvers for 4. Sometimes I think for all the effort I have expended I should be famous but as a lowly piker I can see constant improvement and for me seeing that improvement adds greatly to the enjoyment. Two years ago I was at the bottom, I now finish at the top of "main match" (center fire guns drawing from a holster) and have even been the overall match winner of a few (very) local matches.

This season I'm intent on expanding my horizons. I'm shooting in a few different (new to me) gun divisions and to use the example of carry optics in steel challenge I shot 1 match and looked like a total beginner. It's one of those things I either give it some effort or I throw in the towel and stay in my comfort zone. Again I'm stubborn so you know where that's going. You can do this John just make up your mind and get stubborn.

……………………………….

I suck in double action.

Become stubborn, learn to love the double action.

 

[Johnm1]

I have learned a lot so far. Some, maybe most, I had heard before. But it for some reason wasn't as relavent as it has been in this thread. Mostly because I was content with my slow fire single action performance I haven't competed with a pistol in decades. Hunting has been my only challange and I can do that in single action. It wasn't until this gun that double action felt natural and I had better results. It got me to thinking.

Higher grip, don't jerk the trigger, straight back, don't stage the trigger are all things I had been told/read before. I got better but not good. I had learned the follow through and that was almost an epiphany.

Incorporating what we have discussed will take some time put into practice. I still work full time and don't load as often as I'd like. Sometimes life just gets in the way of what a person wants to do. I will likely not compete but I'd like to take some classes and get better.

Thanks all for the comments. They are really appreciated

 

[cfullgraf]

Become stubborn, learn to love the double action.

There is a wealth of information posted here of what to do to improve double action shooting. All good.

A couple years ago, I decided to get more comfortable with shooting double action revolvers. Besides some of the specific techniques already mentioned, I just worked at shooting double action some every time I went out to the range. I shot some from my Model 442/642 J frames but also shot some from my K-frame 38 Special guns.

Over time, a year or two or so shooting a few cylinder loads or so at each range session, I got very comfortable shooting double action. My primary carry gun is a DA/SA auto and I no longer consider the first shot a "gimme". The first shot is a real, potential hit.

Also, if I elect to carry one of my j-frames, I do not worry about my ability to hit my target any more.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Through many decades of running and coaching runners, we would always see the same old articles etc about "Stride Length". How to stretch it, shorten it, blah,blah.In truth the persons body would determine the best natural length for each individual. Length was not the answer, what mattered was "Turn Over". Making the muscles have a rapid rate of return in each stride. I love the DA, I like the total control they give me. And for myself, it was letting the body and mind determine naturally the best grip and trigger pull. Yea, there are a some basics, but the key was simply training often and practicing with snap caps and focus on target. Using the point and shoot skills I had learned years ago.
The biggest key for myself is simply to train often. I have found my mind, body and eyes, hand, trigger, grip will all come together naturally. And that is done by repetition. I shoot three firearms on a religious basis. The small Pico, the LCR and the Beretta Nano. All double action. I can transition from one to the other with ease. Why? "Simply because, I have become one with the gun". I know them well. Each one is like a natural part of my body.
The key will always be frequent, moderate training. Setting goals to become faster. Let your body and mind, gun work together, and nature will be your friend.

I shoot each range session with the EDC guns. Even if I take other fun guns to the range, the EDC guns will always have priority. They will get a workout. "Frequent moderate workouts." (training). And throughout the week, they will all have dry fire practice. Drawing etc. So easy to do and takes such little time. Just like Brushing your teeth. It becomes a habit.
(and I suppose there are all kinds of articles on the best way to grip a toothbrush, but thanks, I am fine)

 

[forrest r]

It's your thumb.

The colt small grip at the top allows you to get a death grip on it along with the bottom of the grip allows you to get more pinky pressure/control. That snubnosed j-frame was never setup for target work. If you owned a s&w 35-1 (3-t's) you wouldn't pick the colt up for awhile.

Types of firearms, trigger pull weight, thumb position:
Revolver,
Double action revolver trigger pulls are the heaviest coupled with the grip angles of revolvers place the shooters trigger finger at a downward angle (below the thumb). The typical pivot point of a revolver using a 1 handed hold is between the centerline of the bore and the trigger. Move your hand you move the pivot point. Typical pivot points for a revolver shooter between the top and 2nd finger knuckles and strait back where your hand meets the grip. To compensate for the low trigger finger/low pivot point your thumb should pointing down/pinching your 2nd finger/top finger on your grip. Doing this strengthens your shooting hand at the pivot point. Stronger grip ='s less movement.
semi-auto,
Your grip reminds me of a semi-auto grip, you have a space between your top hold finger and your thumb. Semi-auto's put your 1 handed hold more inline/strait. Your trigger finger is strait to reach the trigger. This puts the pivot point between the center of the bore and the center of the trigger higher in your shooting hand. The pivot point is behind the knuckle of your trigger finger and strait back where your hand meets the grip. With a higher pivot point & a lot lighter trigger pull your thumb should be in line with the trigger forming a pincher with your trigger finger/thumb. Strait trigger pull, strait pivot point, strait thumb
Single shot Olympic pistols,
The grips are designed so that the shooters trigger finger is at a slight angle downward to reach the trigger. The thumb shelf on the grip is designed/shaped so the thumb is at the same upward angle as the downward angle of the trigger finger. Doing this puts the pivot point of the shooting hand either in line with the bore or at the bottom of the bore. The trigger pulls are in oz's. Lite trigger pull, scissor pinch holds & high pivot point ='s high thumb

It's all about the angle of the trigger finger, the weight/pull of the trigger & where the center of bore/trigger the firearm being used lines up on the shooters hand mandates where the thumb is placed and how it's used. Change the hand hold, change the grips, you chance where the pivot point ends up on your shooting hand.

Anyway just another opinion

 

[Mizz Maddie]

Excellent.

 

[Mizz Maddie]

Re: metronome. I will try this--hadn't occurred to me (and I am a music professor). After watching a Paul Harrell video in which he touches on the rhythm and duration of revolver trigger pull I started paying more attention and listening (and *feeling*) my S&W Model 10 as it proceeds through its three distinct clicks before the hammer falls. Soon those clicks were sounding like a triplet so it was trip - l - et - bang! And eventually it became Woody Woodpecker's laugh, and as I dry fire at home I always do Woody's laugh as I pull through the DA.

Thanks for all the excellent commentary--I'm a new shooter and I find the answers to many of my questions here time and time again.

 

[Johnm1]

Forrest r - that's a lot to take in. It may take me a while to digest. In all honesty, it is going to take a bit of time to digest/incorporate all of what has been written in the thread. A lot of good information. Now to see if I really understand what I think I understand and if I can put it into action.

 

[thomas15]

Thanks for all the excellent commentary--I'm a new shooter and I find the answers to many of my questions here time and time again.

Welcome to revolverdom Mizz Maddie!

Feel free to ask anything or just chit chat about your experiences. Can't promise that we (or at least me) will know the answer but will give it our best effort.

 

[Mizz Maddie]

Thank you, Thomas!