Sav .250
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At the looks of things, I thought most all had a gun.
Mexican Police chief wants citizen's to have easier access to firearms...
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paramedic70002
Member
OK I know nothing about Mexico other than what I can see on a map. So...
How about the POTUS declare Mexico an anarchy (which it basically is), declare them a clear and present danger to the CONUS, Congress declares war, and we cross the border as far as necessary to clean house, then turn over the new land to Texas.
How about the POTUS declare Mexico an anarchy (which it basically is), declare them a clear and present danger to the CONUS, Congress declares war, and we cross the border as far as necessary to clean house, then turn over the new land to Texas.
hermannr
Member
Invading Mexico is not a good idea, it has been done before, did not turn out well.
If we want to take the cartels out of the equation, we need to remove their source of funds. No money, they will fall apart. It was proven with the repeal of prohibition.
the "war on drugs" is just as stupid as the XVIII ammendment was, just as wasteful of resources and lives, and needs to be stopped.
If the US did what Protugal did, and make improper use of drugs a medical problem, not a criminal problem, the money would just disappear and the drug violence with it.
Remember, firearms control stated because of the criminal problems the XVIII ammendment created...study history, and learn from it...if you do not, you are bound to repeat it...as we are doing now.
If we want to take the cartels out of the equation, we need to remove their source of funds. No money, they will fall apart. It was proven with the repeal of prohibition.
the "war on drugs" is just as stupid as the XVIII ammendment was, just as wasteful of resources and lives, and needs to be stopped.
If the US did what Protugal did, and make improper use of drugs a medical problem, not a criminal problem, the money would just disappear and the drug violence with it.
Remember, firearms control stated because of the criminal problems the XVIII ammendment created...study history, and learn from it...if you do not, you are bound to repeat it...as we are doing now.
armoredman
Member
Maybe a few Tomahawks to cartel mansions? Just thinkin' out loud here...
There is a brave and intelligent man there, and the cartels will make sure he is never heard from again, with applause in the background from the Big O.
There is a brave and intelligent man there, and the cartels will make sure he is never heard from again, with applause in the background from the Big O.
Neverwinter
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Why would a tire store be glad that a Mexican police chief disappears?
MikeNice
Member
Don Alejo Garza Stands Up To The Cartel
One man with a conscience and a hand full of hunting rifles defied the Cartel. If the Mexican citizens had the right to self defense maybe he wouldn't have needed to give his life.
armoredman
Member
Amen.
CathyGo
Member
Our enemy out here carries full auto weapons. Doesn't mean they can hit the broad side of a barn with them. They somehow managed to miss a TOWER about 8 feet wide while shooting from less than 50 feet away.
Neverwinter
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Having the right to self defense doesn't make you immune to explosives.
MikeNice
Member
You're right. If they ran in to armed resistance more often they might be less inclined to try these types of things. It is kind of like the tactics used by America's enemies in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Enough small pockets of resistance make the cost on all fronts too high for many to stomach.
Neverwinter
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They might also be inclined to change their tactics. Maybe next time they won't give advance notice. Or explosives might become a first option.
The arming of the populace to defend against the cartels is an attempt to address a problem too far downstream to make enough of a difference.
stevelyn
Member
Mebbe we should recruit him to be a US citizen. He sounds like he'd be a good one.
As crazy as their soldiers are, I think the people would need to string a few up.
MikeNice
Member
Never, I do not think guns are the sole solution. It should be part of a larger solution that involves ending (or addressing) prohibition. Mexico also needs to focus on providing basic services like clean water, reliable electricity, and education to those in rural areas. Along with a whole host of other improvements.
Guns are a small part of the answer to a much larger and complex problem.
Guns are a small part of the answer to a much larger and complex problem.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Complex?
Self defense is not what I'd characterize as a "complex" problem.
Right now, the citizens of Mexico are, for all intents and purposes, disarmed.
An armed citizenry changes that dynamic.
And, if there are complex problems to solve, at the very least that baseline should be changed. I'd much rather attempt to formulate solutions to the cartel violence thing with "armed citizens" as an assumption.
No, it doesn't fix everything, but I don't see how keeping them defenseless makes the solutions any easier.
Self defense is not what I'd characterize as a "complex" problem.
Right now, the citizens of Mexico are, for all intents and purposes, disarmed.
An armed citizenry changes that dynamic.
And, if there are complex problems to solve, at the very least that baseline should be changed. I'd much rather attempt to formulate solutions to the cartel violence thing with "armed citizens" as an assumption.
No, it doesn't fix everything, but I don't see how keeping them defenseless makes the solutions any easier.
Carl N. Brown
Member
The problem with Mexico is one party rule for over 80 years, politicians and police who make deals with cartels, only to have the cartels come back and demand more in the next round.
The Mexican balladeers who usually make heroes out of desperados are increasingly making songs about "Don Alejo" the 77-yr old rancher who went down fighting rather than surrender his ranch to Los Zetas.
The Mexican balladeers who usually make heroes out of desperados are increasingly making songs about "Don Alejo" the 77-yr old rancher who went down fighting rather than surrender his ranch to Los Zetas.
^this
MikeNice
Member
Nope, cartel violence in Mexico is though.
It is increasing in intensity beyond Mexico as well.
In fact the US and Panama have turned Panama into another drug border to get around as it makes a natural geographic choke point as the narrowest land point between continents and divided by the Panama Canal. Just a couple years ago they started opening joint narco bases around Panama.
The US also publicly uses some Colombian and other bases for counter narcotics.
Now they have found cartel made fully submersible submarines in Venezuela and Colombia to transport drugs to Mexico, they have upgraded from semi-submersibles.
Here is one of them found this February:
Combine this with the recent narco 'tanks' or APCs being custom made and used by the cartels:
And these are just the things they are catching.
While the cartels themselves enforce a media blackout on several topics and in certain regions of Mexico. News outlets that report the wrong things have people killed, and so many don't even report certain things anymore, and a lot of what is going on does not make it into official media reports as a result. Town will have violent large scale firefights in public that most of the town is aware of, and the news that night and the newspapers in many towns will talk about trivial minor topics and never mention the firefight.
In fact the US and Panama have turned Panama into another drug border to get around as it makes a natural geographic choke point as the narrowest land point between continents and divided by the Panama Canal. Just a couple years ago they started opening joint narco bases around Panama.
The US also publicly uses some Colombian and other bases for counter narcotics.
Now they have found cartel made fully submersible submarines in Venezuela and Colombia to transport drugs to Mexico, they have upgraded from semi-submersibles.
Here is one of them found this February:
Combine this with the recent narco 'tanks' or APCs being custom made and used by the cartels:
And these are just the things they are catching.
While the cartels themselves enforce a media blackout on several topics and in certain regions of Mexico. News outlets that report the wrong things have people killed, and so many don't even report certain things anymore, and a lot of what is going on does not make it into official media reports as a result. Town will have violent large scale firefights in public that most of the town is aware of, and the news that night and the newspapers in many towns will talk about trivial minor topics and never mention the firefight.
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jahwarrior
Member
you do realize why we have a Second Amendment, right? the Founding Fathers had the foresight to understand that we might need them to protect ourselves from our own government someday. it's not about hunting, target shooting, or anything. it's about self defense, not just from muggers, but soldiers.
now, think about what weapons we're allowed to keep. yes, we can have full auto/NFA items, but what percentage of gun owners own full auto/NFA items? i'm betting a very small percentage. our government, on the other hand, has issues select fire, body armor, and NV goggles to our troops. a few armed citizens with Glocks, 1911's, and semiauto rifles wouldn't stand a chance.
but, it's better than nothing.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Select fire isn't nessecery as a rifleman and someone can still lay down cover fire with a semi auto not to mention captured weapons aswell.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Unfortunately here our anti-gunners are infected with a particularly virulent strain of Stockholm Syndrome and actually seem to enjoy being held hostage by the criminal, and want to disarm us all and criminalize self-defense, reducing everyone to the role of whimpering whipped dog, which they seem to enjoy playing so much.
Carl N. Brown
Member
I recall a recent story out of Mexico where kidnappers tried to take a 17-yr old girl; the townspeople rallied against them. A mob of 400 surrounded a police car where two of the kidnappers were being held. When it was over, the two kidnappers had bled to death.
What is the total civilian population of Mexico (most of whom seem to be fed up with the cartels and the corrupt system)? What is the total membership of Los Zetas and the Gulf Cartel (who don't exactly tend to live low-profile lifestyles)?
There is a storm building, and it won't be a just few citizens with 1911s in the fight.
¡Viva Don Alejo!
Too bad that a corrupt government that fears its own citizens and made deals with the devils has let things get to this point.
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Neverwinter
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There is a more important question. What is the disparity of the resources available to the cartels compared to the people? We've already seen a link proving that they have sufficient resources for submersible vehicles and APCs.
I'm not sure that the kidnappers example is relevant, considering that the police have different rules and resources than the cartels.
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