Ohio Gun Guy
Member
WHAT! Clearly its our educational system. If the bad guy could only read, they would know they are in a gun free zone. The little placard says so! 
Michigan bill to remove "Gun Free Zones"
- Thread starter spartywrx
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Play Hard
Member
Hb 4348
Can someone tell me the current status of HB 4348 regarding elimination of gun free zones? I can't seem to find it by googling.
Can someone tell me the current status of HB 4348 regarding elimination of gun free zones? I can't seem to find it by googling.
Play Hard
Member
"By the way, believe it or not if you are a CPL holder in Michigan you can legally open carry in any of the pistol free zones"
Seriously? How does that work? Can you cite a statute or something? Interesting concept.
On March 20 I sent an email to all the members of the Michigan House Judiciary committee that is supposed to be evaluating HB4348 and I got this nice response back from Rep. Kandrevas office (excerpt):
...As I am sure you are aware, HB 4348 and HB 4334 were both introduced last week and would revise the current concealed weapons laws. HB 4334 and HB 4348 were referred to the Judiciary Committee, of which Representative Kandrevas is a member. As of today, the legislation has not been introduced in committee.
This issue is one that the Representative will be conducting additional research on prior to making any final decision. He welcomes your input on this issue. Please know that the Representative and I have discussed your concerns and he will take them into consideration when he has the chance to vote on this issue both in Committee and in Session...
So there we have our status. Here is the letter I sent:
Representative:
I am a Michigan Resident of Grand Traverse County.
I urge you to support House Bill 4348 (2009), which would eliminate the gun-free zones from Michigan’s CCW / CPL law. These gun free zones are exactly the type of places where an armed citizen is needed. We have all heard of shootings and mass killings in schools and churches and other places where numerous people gather. It just doesn’t make sense to prohibit honest armed citizens from these places where:
1) The CPL holders who are carrying weapons are a very strong deterrent for criminals to even attempt a shooting incident in one of these public places.
2) In the event that a shooting spree is started by a evildoer, there is a strong likelihood that the bad guy would be neutralized by an armed citizen and lives will be saved.
Finally, if a deranged person is intent on mass killing, where would be the location of choice in Michigan? Of course they would go to a gun free zone where there are no police or armed citizens: churches, schools, sports stadiums etc.
I have three kids in high school/college. I would like to have them be more safe by knowing there may be others, including teachers, who may be armed CPL holders with the intention of protecting their students.
Please Support HB4348 to make Michigan a safer place.
Seriously? How does that work? Can you cite a statute or something? Interesting concept.
On March 20 I sent an email to all the members of the Michigan House Judiciary committee that is supposed to be evaluating HB4348 and I got this nice response back from Rep. Kandrevas office (excerpt):
...As I am sure you are aware, HB 4348 and HB 4334 were both introduced last week and would revise the current concealed weapons laws. HB 4334 and HB 4348 were referred to the Judiciary Committee, of which Representative Kandrevas is a member. As of today, the legislation has not been introduced in committee.
This issue is one that the Representative will be conducting additional research on prior to making any final decision. He welcomes your input on this issue. Please know that the Representative and I have discussed your concerns and he will take them into consideration when he has the chance to vote on this issue both in Committee and in Session...
So there we have our status. Here is the letter I sent:
Representative:
I am a Michigan Resident of Grand Traverse County.
I urge you to support House Bill 4348 (2009), which would eliminate the gun-free zones from Michigan’s CCW / CPL law. These gun free zones are exactly the type of places where an armed citizen is needed. We have all heard of shootings and mass killings in schools and churches and other places where numerous people gather. It just doesn’t make sense to prohibit honest armed citizens from these places where:
1) The CPL holders who are carrying weapons are a very strong deterrent for criminals to even attempt a shooting incident in one of these public places.
2) In the event that a shooting spree is started by a evildoer, there is a strong likelihood that the bad guy would be neutralized by an armed citizen and lives will be saved.
Finally, if a deranged person is intent on mass killing, where would be the location of choice in Michigan? Of course they would go to a gun free zone where there are no police or armed citizens: churches, schools, sports stadiums etc.
I have three kids in high school/college. I would like to have them be more safe by knowing there may be others, including teachers, who may be armed CPL holders with the intention of protecting their students.
Please Support HB4348 to make Michigan a safer place.
I emailed Rep. Elsenheimer whom I believe is also your Representative and he responded favorably. He is a proponent of 2A rights so I wasn't surprised he was in support of the bill.
Regarding the open carry in pistol free zones... Over at the Second Amendment March forums there is a post about this. Check here:http://secondamendmentforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28 I was pretty shocked to learn about this but apparently it is correct. Not sure I would try it but it looks legal.
Excerpts:
6) An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a person with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc.
Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.
“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”
Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441
“…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"
ADVISORY NOTE: Before carrying a handgun we recommend that you become familiar with all state and federal laws in regards to firearm laws and the use of deadly force. Taking a self defense/firearm course is recommended. Michigan has a self defense act PA No. 309 July 18, 2006 that states you do not have to retreat from a threat, but you must meet the legal requirements before you engage in the use of deadly force.
FOR MORE INFO SEE http://WWW.OPENCARRY.ORG and click on forums, then click on MICHIGAN.
Regarding the open carry in pistol free zones... Over at the Second Amendment March forums there is a post about this. Check here:http://secondamendmentforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28 I was pretty shocked to learn about this but apparently it is correct. Not sure I would try it but it looks legal.
Excerpts:
6) An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a person with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc.
Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.
“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”
Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441
“…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"
ADVISORY NOTE: Before carrying a handgun we recommend that you become familiar with all state and federal laws in regards to firearm laws and the use of deadly force. Taking a self defense/firearm course is recommended. Michigan has a self defense act PA No. 309 July 18, 2006 that states you do not have to retreat from a threat, but you must meet the legal requirements before you engage in the use of deadly force.
FOR MORE INFO SEE http://WWW.OPENCARRY.ORG and click on forums, then click on MICHIGAN.
Play Hard
Member
I wonder if anybody has tested this loophole. Walk into Cobo during a Redwings game with a revolver on your hip. Might this be considered "brandishing"?
By Michigan law it wouldn't be considered brandishing. I can guarantee you'd get stopped and most likely arrested by those ignorant of the law. Not to mention I believe Cobo is a privately owned entity so it would be up to them if you could carry there or not. What is really interesting is that technically speaking you could open carry in a K-12 public school or public university. I am not going to test it out however.
Play Hard
Member
Two more questions:
1) I don't currently have a CPL and I'm going on a trip in Michigan. I understand I may put my unloaded pistol in my luggage in the trunk and drive. But is there anything illegal from carrying that suitcase into a hotel room and leaving it there for the night? Would this be considered a concealed pistol in Michigan?
2) I'm considering purchase of a Kel Tec Sub 2000 folding rifle. http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm Can anybody tell me if this weapon must be licensed in Michigan due to the fact that it folds? If concealed (say in a case under front seat of my car) would this illegal?
1) I don't currently have a CPL and I'm going on a trip in Michigan. I understand I may put my unloaded pistol in my luggage in the trunk and drive. But is there anything illegal from carrying that suitcase into a hotel room and leaving it there for the night? Would this be considered a concealed pistol in Michigan?
2) I'm considering purchase of a Kel Tec Sub 2000 folding rifle. http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm Can anybody tell me if this weapon must be licensed in Michigan due to the fact that it folds? If concealed (say in a case under front seat of my car) would this illegal?
freakshow10mm
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1. No. It is not illegal.
2. Yes, it is under 30 inches when it folds so it must be registered as a pistol. It is legal to carry unloaded in a case anywhere in your vehicle when you are en route to a lawful activity per MCL.
3. Are you a MI resident? If not, you may not possess a handgun in MI unless you have a carry permit from another state.
My advice is to get your CPL as soon as you can. It eliminates a lot of BS.
2. Yes, it is under 30 inches when it folds so it must be registered as a pistol. It is legal to carry unloaded in a case anywhere in your vehicle when you are en route to a lawful activity per MCL.
3. Are you a MI resident? If not, you may not possess a handgun in MI unless you have a carry permit from another state.
My advice is to get your CPL as soon as you can. It eliminates a lot of BS.
highorder
Member
I might be mistaken, but I think that the Sub 2000 does NOT have to be registered as a pistol because it is NOT operable in its folded condition.
Its been a few years since I was behind the counter in MI, so I can't be certain.
freakshow10mm
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No, it still can fold to less than 30 inches so it's a pistol. Because it doesn't fire when folded (to less than 26 inches) it's not a SBR.
The capability to be fired is for determining if it's a SBR or not. If it's less than 26 OAL and can't be fired when it's folded, then it's not a SBR.
This weapon is specifically named in the state paperwork the ATF gave me during the compliance interview from the ATF.
The capability to be fired is for determining if it's a SBR or not. If it's less than 26 OAL and can't be fired when it's folded, then it's not a SBR.
This weapon is specifically named in the state paperwork the ATF gave me during the compliance interview from the ATF.
highorder
Member
ah yes, the SBR routine... Thank you for refreshing my memory!
Most places, its just different paperwork, but in Michigan, SBR's are so dangerous they are not allowed to exist...
Most places, its just different paperwork, but in Michigan, SBR's are so dangerous they are not allowed to exist...
Play Hard
Member
What's a SBR?
freakshow10mm
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Short Barrel Rifle
Knightrider03m
Member
I hope that it works
langenc
Member
I talked with Sen Tony Stamos last week on his visit to my town. He was receptive but noted it is a house bill
When your rep/senator visits your town get hold of his/her ear.. The em what you want. Get friend or 2 to do the same.
Would be nice to get rid of registration, also..
When your rep/senator visits your town get hold of his/her ear.. The em what you want. Get friend or 2 to do the same.
Would be nice to get rid of registration, also..
Hungry Seagull
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awesome!!!!
2WheelsGood
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Sorry to drag up this ancient thread, but does anyone know what ever happened with this? Obviously the pistol-free zones are still in place, so I assume it wasn't successful, but any more info?
Caliper_Mi
Member
The link in the OP takes you to the history on the bill. Basically, read once and referred to the judiciary committee.
From that link, if you click "bills" in the top left of the page, it will take you to the Michigan Legislature page where you can look up any bill introduced and find its status.
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