Michigan Eliminates Pistol "Safety" Inspection

[MrAnteater]

The handgun "inspection" after purchase will be eliminated starting Jan 7 2009.

All that will be required is to mail or hand deliver the paperwork to your local police station within 10 days of the purchase.

Public Acts No. 194, 195, 196.

 

[Sheldon J]

received this in my e mail today yes we still have a form of registration but...

Michigan Eliminates it's so-called Pistol 'Safety' Inspection
Commentary by Steve Dulan


The way we handle post-purchase paperwork for pistols will be changing. New legislation amending Public Act 372, co-sponsored by 4 members of the MCRGO Board of Directors (Representatives Sheltrown and Casperson and Senators Cropsey and Richardville) among others, was signed into law last week by the Governor. The new rules (paraphrased for clarity) are as follows:

The so-called "safety inspection" is eliminated. The seller of a pistol shall immediately record the sale on a 4-part (quadruplicate) form provided by the Department of State Police, which the purchaser shall sign. One copy is kept by the seller. One copy is kept by purchaser. Two copies are sent to the police department or county sheriff within 10 days. The forms can be hand-delivered or sent by first-class or certified mail (I recommend certified and hang onto your receipts.) Failure to comply with this rule is civil infraction punishable by a fine of $250 maximum. Violations will also be reported to the state police and the county gun board.

The police agency will forward one copy to the state police within 48 hours, and keep the other for at least 6 years. The state police will enter the information into the computer data base within 10 days of receiving it. The purchaser has a right to get a copy of the information that is entered to verify the accuracy of the information. The police or sheriff's department can charge a fee of $1.00 maximum for the copy. The purchaser has to keep his/her copy of the form while carrying or using the pistol for the first 30 days after purchase. After that time, the form need not be carried.

This law takes effect January 7th, 2009. Public Acts No. 194, 195, 196.

I've had the opportunity to hear and read many comments on this law, including during a recent visit to the Multi Lakes Conservation Club, where I was honored to be welcomed as a representative of MCRGO and hear questions and comments. Some of the comments expressed disappointment that we still have pistol registration. While it is true that this legislation, like most legislation, has gone through changes from the original proposed law, it is still a victory for gun owners. Even though we didn't get everything on our wish list, our friends in the legislature have managed to eliminate the ridiculous "safety inspection." Now, we don't have to make that trip down to the police station to hold the gun up to the bullet-proof glass for a clerk to copy down the serial number.

Keep in mind that there are legislators who are not at all supportive of gun rights and would just as soon increase our inconvenience and expense rather than make things better for gun owners. Politics in a representative democracy is the art of the possible. While this new law still requires registration, that has been a fact of life for a couple of generations in Michigan. At least we don't have to make that post-purchase trip to the police station anymore once this new law takes effect.

In fact, for those with a CPL (Concealed Pistol License), no trip to the police/sheriff's department is required. The seller simply records the CPL license information on the form and the new owner signs and submits the forms by mail. This is much more efficient and less time-consuming than the old system.

Those of us who think logically about this issue know that the central fallacy of all gun control law is the idea that criminals will obey gun control laws while ignoring other laws. However, we still have a long way to go in convincing our fellow citizens and arriving at a consensus on this issue. Since being elected to the MCRGO Board of Directors a few years back, I've had numerous discussions with gun owners about this simple truth. The best suggestion I have for all of us is to continue to engage gun control advocates in calm, reasoned debate. The truth is on our side of this argument. But, being correct is not sufficient. We have to sway our fellow citizens.

They key area of agreement on both sides of the gun control debate is the desire for safety. Some of our neighbors are lacking in experience with, and knowledge of guns. Why not invite a few anti-gunners to the range? Let them see how a well-run range is one of the safest places on Earth. Let them see that we gun owners are thoughtful, solid citizens. Give them the opportunity to realize that guns are useful in their lives for self-defense and recreation. If we want to further improve the legal and public policy system regarding guns, we need to win more hearts and minds so that our allies in the legislature can continue to push the law more into line with common sense.

In short, instead of complaining that the glass is still half empty, let's congratulate our legislators for successfully pouring a little more water into it even as some of their colleagues were attempting to jostle their collective elbow.

 

[bsf]

IMO, these new laws are just the result of our legislators wasting their time and our money. There is only the most minimal of improvement coming out of a lot of new or revised legal language. After following the controversy, I decided this was just an attempt by legislators to justify their pay, but little was actually accomplished.

<Legislator X>Hey, look at me voters. I am doing something. Though it really accomplishes very little, I am going to pretend like I just achieved something amazing. Vote for me because I give the appearance of doing stuff while actually accomplishing very little. I am important. You cannot survive without me doing useless stuff and wasting your tax money. Remember to vote for me on Election Day. <Legislator X>

ETA
I understand this effort started out with the best intentions. Getting a clean bill passed is impossible w/ the number of anti-gun people in the legislature. I am more annoyed w/ the citizens of MI more than anything. In general and as a whole, the citizens get the representation and laws they want and deserve. It just sucks being a minority; read “I believe in freedom and personal responsibility.”

 

[Gunnerpalace]

I tried this as a thread it crashed and burned with people gripping about registration, I will simply state this again: it took over 50 years to get safety inspection eliminated, the registration will take time too just be patient.

 

[nelson133]

As a Michigan resident I am glad for this small step. The all or nothing crowd generally gets nothing. Every time we chip away at some onerous legislation and nothing bad happens it allows us to move forward. While I personally would prefer for the law to reflect my desire for no gun limitations by the state, it isn't realistic.

 

[Jim K]

I had been told that the "safety inspection" was often used as a "backdoor" permit system, where guns belonging to members of certain ethnic groups were always unsafe and had to be confiscated. Whether that is true or not, the change to the law is good news.

BTW, Heller had nothing to do with Michigan, or with concealed carry. It applied only in the District of Columbia and addressed only handguns kept in the home. (The D.C. Council and Police are trying to pile on regulation to effectively void Heller - we will see how that goes.)

Jim

 

[Flyboy73]

How does the new law effect those with a C&R? Before, when i got a C&R pistol, I took it to my Local Sheriff and filled out a CCW card and signed it as both purchiser and seller and they sent it off to Lansing for me and gave my the green card.

Any new rules or guidence for the C&R holder?

Brion

 

[poor_richard]

I posted this in the other thread, so I'll post it here.

This legislation is a great example of why many of these “compromises” are just plain bad strategy.

Until now, the process wasn’t all that bad (at least compared to what we will shortly have, and if the PD‘s didn’t break the law). We’ve had to go down to the PD and get this “safety inspection” done, and while it’s an inconvenience, it’s also simple, direct, and puts little, if any other burden upon the gun owner. Once you had your handgun inspected, you were good to go. It didn’t even cost you any money out of pocket. The only real problems were the police departments who violated the law, and made up their own requirements and restrictions, thereby putting such burdens on gun owners.

“Registration” is a bad word/act/idea for gun owners. Period. For years, Michigan had a pistol safety inspection (yeah, I know. It’s effectively a registration. Just bear with me.) and registration was considered bad (and is). Not only is it unconstitutional (irregardless of any ruling), but it is also a prelude to confiscation, and an invasion of privacy. That is why (fortunately up until now), we didn’t have “registration” in Michigan. Sure, they knew it was effectively a registration, but at least they also knew that such a concept was unacceptable. Now, they have become so emboldened that they don’t even try to disguise their intentions, and openly call it registration.And, they figured that since we’ve been so cooperative, they might as well throw a few other burdens on us.

No longer can we just go down and get it taken care of (It can be done on a lunch hour if the PD is NOT VIOLATING the law), sans fees. We now have to pay to send it in, and you should pay extra for certified mail (and keep that receipt forever) because we all know that things get lost in the mail. Great, now instead of going to the PD, we instead go to the post office. And, wouldn’t it be a shame if the person who signed for it at the PD, “took a job in another state, and we have no record of your registration here”. Remember, some of these departments are even now STILL in violation of the law, and as such deserve absolutely no trust in matters that could get you in legal entanglements. Also, I’ve sent a lot of stuff through the mail, and it’s not the most secure method of transferring something so simple as a piece of paper, especially when you can be fined for not doing so. Try getting the USPS to locate a package that is insured with signature confirmation (and you trust them to pay more for certification?). So, now we have even more changing of hands due to mail-in instead of walk in. (remember folks, it’s some of the police departments who have been making this an onerous process due to their clear violation of the law, and the legislature is punishing us!). If that’s not enough, they actually get Michigan’s largest gun rights group, along with the country’s largest gun rights group to not only go along with such affronts, but to also call them a victory.

This whole thing was mucked up because some PD’s decided to violate state law, and impose their own regulations and restrictions upon the process.

So, did our “ben/malevolent” leaders think it a good idea to pass legislation which would force the violators of the law into compliance? No, of course not. It’s much easier to put further burdens upon the very citizens who are following the law, and who have the audacity to cry “FOUL!” when the very people who have been sworn to uphold such laws are themselves trampling them.

Not only do they now impose an outright registration, they also make you pay the costs via shipping and the added security of certification. And, since they’ve now place a “middle man” (USPS) into the equation, we now have to just take it on faith that the PD will not only actually receive, but actually follow the law (Some of them actually do follow the law in these matters), and do their duty to properly complete the registration. Furthermore, if that isn’t enough, you now have to carry that registration card (effectively similar to the title to your car) around with you for thirty days, or be subject to prosecution for not carrying a piece of paper!


That’s a long read, so I’ll sum things up for the short version. This is what we had IF THE PD WAS NOT VIOLATING THE LAW.

PREVIOUSLY:

Good:

• The process was streamlined and simple. Two trips to the PD that could be done over a lunch hour.
• After that, you put your safety inspection card in the safe nice and cozy. No requirement to carry it with you.
• No out of pocket expense, the process was free, (okay, maybe gas money).
• No middle man, making the process more direct, simple, and less prone to error.
• IT ISN’T REGISTRATION!

Bad:

• It took two trips (you could add that you had to take the pistol down there, but you were going anyway. Although, it could cause problems with storing it while at work if your doing it on your lunch hour, etc…).
• It’s an invasion of privacy.

NOW:

Good:

• One trip to the PD. Edited to add: This can be huge if one's personal logistics make such a trip prohibitive.

Bad:

• Pay for certified mail.
• Hope the PD gets the paperwork.
• Hope the PD acts in good faith (which some have already demonstrated they don’t have) by processing the paperwork
• Must carry the card with you for 30 days.
• Still an invasion of privacy
• Still have to make a second trip, but this time to the post office (it pretty much negates the only positive about this new law).

Did I omit anything

Seems to me, they put more burdens upon the gun owner, and then got a couple major gun rights groups (state and national level) to call it a victory. This is bad law, and sadly, a black stain on NRA and MCRGO.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=378780

 

[Gunnerpalace]

As a Michigan resident I am glad for this small step. The all or nothing crowd generally gets nothing. Every time we chip away at some onerous legislation and nothing bad happens it allows us to move forward. While I personally would prefer for the law to reflect my desire for no gun limitations by the state, it isn't realistic

Here Here! This is the point I am trying to make.

 

[nelson133]

Poor Richard, just get a Michigan cpl and forget about the certified mail, or just take it to the police station or sheriff's office and hand deliver it. Michigan has had a hard registration system for many years. When I go to register a new gun, the clerk can see every pistol that I own on the computer. A couple have commented on the number of pistols that I own.
The way to make this better is to work for good legislators, there is an election coming up you know, and keep coming back and pushing them. There are good Michigan organizations who push fro better gun laws like MCRGO, support them. Posting complaints on a friendly board solves nothing.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Poor Richard, just get a Michigan cpl and forget about the certified mail

Having a CPL eliminates the purchase permit, but you still have to register the gun (both before and after this law change) just like anyone else. Actually, as noted in a prior thread, this change removes an ambiguity about the timing for registration - it is now clear that you must register within X number of days or you're in violation. Apparently some lawyers considered the prior law to be ambiguous on whether there was any specific deadline for registration.

 

[poor_richard]

Poor Richard, just get a Michigan cpl and forget about the certified mail, or just take it to the police station or sheriff's office and hand deliver it. Michigan has had a hard registration system for many years. When I go to register a new gun, the clerk can see every pistol that I own on the computer. A couple have commented on the number of pistols that I own.
The way to make this better is to work for good legislators, there is an election coming up you know, and keep coming back and pushing them. There are good Michigan organizations who push fro better gun laws like MCRGO, support them. Posting complaints on a friendly board solves nothing.

I've no need of a CPL. Thank you very much. Nor is it anybody's business but mine if I choose to get one. (Really, these type of comments are just plain tired, and come off as snide. Such advice is rarely asked for, and is certainly OT, and therefore poor netiquette) Furthermore, it will not eliminate any of the problems with this bill. CPL holders still have to register (just like everyone else). CPL holders still have to carry their green card for 30 days (just like everyone else). CPL holders still have to make a trip to get the gun registered (just like everyone else). The main thing people are praising this bill about is the elimination of the safety inspection. It's nothing more than a shell game, and I explained why. Having a CPL has no effect on the points I outlined.

Your point about the registration process only reiterates what I mentioned in my post.

Come to think about it, it seems the only point of your post was to complain about me because I had the audacity to point out how this bill is far from the victory for gun owners that some would have us believe. Really, suggesting that I am complaining merely because I contrasted the differences between the old process, and the new, and then commenting that I don't see it as a step forward (which it really isn't). And you thought it was a complaint?

Just so you'll know. My post wasn't an complaint, it was an observation. I notice you didn't dispute any of the points. Nope, just started making it about me (IOW, making it personal). But hey, if that's what you want to do, then have fun.

However, I do agree with you that what's most important is to work for better legislatures, but again, that's OT.

In an effort to not make this seem like a negative post, I'll try to find something else in your post on which to comment.

Let's see if I've covered everything:

Obligatory "just get a CPL" comment: Check
Registration comment: Check
Legislatures, and elections comment: Check
MCRGO and other pro gun orgs: Oops, sorry I missed this one.

MCRGO has done A LOT for gun owners in this state, and I won't disparage them at this point. I fully understand that they can't do everything right, and win every battle. Yes, this was a loss for our side. The new law is worse than what we now have. However, even though it's worse, it still isn't like they repealed "shall issue", or made OC illegal. In the grand scheme of things I see it as a "slip up", at best. I don't like it, but I'll try to look at the glass half full.

Now, onto the rest of the list (only one left):

"Complaints" comment: He he, this one gave me quite a chuckle. Thanks for that.

Edited to add:
Someone had pointed out in another thread that another positive of this bill is that not everyone works close enough to home for the inspections to be feasible. That is a point that I had missed, and for that I apologize. I will refrain from suggesting that such peoples "just move closer to work, or work closer to home and forget about the commute to get it inspected". What I will do is go back to edit my initial post to reflect the point.

 

[nelson133]

Saying that this law is a loss is just dead wrong, it didn't go far enough, but it is an improvement. Too many localities go out of their way to make it as difficult as possible to get permits and to register guns. They restrict hours for gun registration/inspection, don't keep the hours that they post and do their best to prevent people from owning handguns. This law fixes that problem. While such practices are illegal under state law, there is no penalty for violating the law.
When you post that the old system "IT ISN’T REGISTRATION!" I have to ask what state are you talking about?
"No longer can we just go down and get it taken care of (It can be done on a lunch hour " Yes you can, just hand carry your paper work down to the local police station and hand it in. They might even give you a receipt. You don't have to carry the gun with you to work which may be a violation of your employer's policies. And, as above, if your local police are one of the numerous localities who violate the law you may be talking about taking a day off of work or multiple trips to get the job done.
Frankly, complaining that this is a backwards step because we didn't get everything shows an ignorance of how politics works.

 

[MrAnteater]

Any victory gun owners get is a good victory. It puzzles me how this good news is announced and people still find things to complain about.

Yes, there is still handgun registration. But at least one hurdle and inconvenience has been eliminated from the equation.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Yes, one hurdle is gone. But a new trap is created - you must carry the proof of purchase/registration for the first 30 days of ownership, or be in violation. That's new, and negative. I would feel differently if the inspection had been eliminated without any new requirements - then it would be an incremental gain, and yes we all know that these things usually happen in tiny steps. But I'm not sure there is even a net gain with this change.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

you must carry the proof of purchase/registration for the first 30 days of ownership

As I said in the other thread there are quite a few people around the country that do this, just in case they get pulled over.

 

[FTA84]

W is back-door gun registration. They don't register the gun. (Although in some states they DO register the gun for CCW.) In CCW the state registers YOU -- prints, mug shot, address, description, DMV info. They don't need to register your firearm; they have YOU.

I have to disagree that this is a bad thing. As Scalia pointed out in Heller, one may try to equate gun registration with voting registration.

You register the voter but not the vote. The opposite, registering the vote of the voter is something that happens in corrupt regimes. That way they know who their enemies are.

Personally, I'd rather the government register me than register a weapon to me. So they know that I have a weapon, but they don't know how many or what type. Perhaps when they come looking, I will simply on claim to have a busted .22lr plinker?
They can't try to confiscate things they don't know to exist.

Same thing with voter registration. It doesn't matter if they know you voted (because it is not hard to find that out anyway, someone had to see you) but it is a big deal if they register how you vote!

 

[poor_richard]

Saying that this law is a loss is just dead wrong, it didn't go far enough, but it is an improvement.

I agree to disagree. One step forward and two steps back is not an “improvement”.

Too many localities go out of their way to make it as difficult as possible to get permits and to register guns. They restrict hours for gun registration/inspection, don't keep the hours that they post and do their best to prevent people from owning handguns. This law fixes that problem. While such practices are illegal under state law, there is no penalty for violating the law.

I covered this in my initial post. However, I will further opine on it. The new law doesn’t fix that problem. It does nothing to address the authorities who are breaking the law, it merely puts a heavier burden upon the law abiding citizenry. Even if all it did was change things from “safety inspection” to “register by mail”, it wouldn’t be as bad as it actually is. I understand that sometimes sacrifice is necessary for the greater good. Unfortunately, this bill goes beyond that by sacrificing too much.

When you post that the old system "IT ISN’T REGISTRATION!" I have to ask what state are you talking about?

You really didn’t like my initial post, did you. Because it’s obvious that you ignored it. Just in case you (or anyone really) is interested, it’s post #9.

…
Frankly, complaining that this is a backwards step because we didn't get everything shows an ignorance of how politics works.

Now we’ve gone from personal attacks, to just plain dishonest personal attacks (unless of course this isn‘t referring to me. I realize I am assuming it is due to context).

Yup, we’re going to take a write up analyzing the merits and demerits of a new bill, and change “analysis and conclusion” to “complaining”, just because we don’t like that the findings of that analysis don’t present a positive for us . Then, we will call the author of such analysis “ignorant” (again because we don’t like or agree with the conclusion), and we‘ll (erroneously) bring in the point of “political mechanisms“ to try to demonstrate it. Even more, we will say that the person who did the analysis and conclusion is “complaining… because we didn’t get everything”, when no such argument was made or even implied.

Your personal attacks didn’t work, and neither will your straw man arguments. If you find flaws in my argument, fine. Prove the point and I'll consider it as I did for another forum member.

Here’s a little friendly advice (you shouldn’t have a problem with it since you so freely give it out) about taking an opposing side in some sort of debate. If all you can do is: reiterate the opposing views argument; resort to personal attacks of the opposition; and bring in straw man arguments, then you might want to consider that, “your argument/position may not be that be that great to begin with“. Either way, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[poor_richard]

As I said in the other thread there are quite a few people around the country that do this, just in case they get pulled over.

And, in Illinois, they have a FOID card. Maybe we should get one of those also. Or, maybe enact laws like UK or Canada.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

And, in Illinois, they have a FOID card. Maybe we should get one of those also. Or, maybe enact laws like UK or Canada

That is out of context.

 

[poor_richard]

That is out of context.

I certainly wouldn't want to do that. How so?

 

[Gunnerpalace]

I don't consider carrying the receipt for a pistol for 30 days equal to a card carried (that you have to pay for once every three years) for all firearms, that also can be revoked by a cop having a bad day.

Now as for carrying the receipts some people do this because well for the most part police interference, the by the anti-gun cops will give grief regardless of this law or not.

 

[poor_richard]

I don't consider carrying the receipt for a pistol for 30 days equal to a card carried (that you have to pay for once every three years) for all firearms, that also can be revoked by a cop having a bad day.

Now as for carrying the receipts some people do this because well for the most part police interference, the by the anti-gun cops will give grief regardless of this law or not.

In that case no, it isn’t out of context. I’ll explain.

Carrying a receipt for a pistol for 30 days(under force of law)

=ridiculous requirement, placing one more burden upon gun owners. ​

Card carried (...) for all firearms

=ridiculous requirement, placing one more burden upon gun owners.​

Z-Michigan stated the following:

you must carry the proof of purchase/registration for the first 30 days of ownership, or be in violation. That's new, and negative.

To which you responded,

As I said in the other thread there are quite a few people around the country that do this, just in case they get pulled over.

That nothing more than rationalizing an added burden by stating that, “it’s done in other places.”, or "some of us already do it". It is an added burden on gun owners, and it is irrelevant if people in other states have to do it, or if some here chose to do so.

You made reference to the restriction and/or burdens that people from other states endure, and I used other examples of the same to a greater degree. Just because the examples vary in greater or lesser degree doesn’t place them out of context. The context is that other people have to put up with this loss of freedom. Trying to take the discussion out of that context, is out of context.

Is one worse than the other? Of course it is, but that doesn’t make it relevant to the context of the discussion. They are both added ridiculous requirements/restrictions upon gun owners. Where once you could travel freely about with a new pistol (sans papers) without fear of prosecution, you now no longer have that freedom. That means you have lost freedom. Period. Just because you can find that little loss of freedom acceptable (or maybe accepted it a long time ago), and use other’s plight to rationalize it, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. It’s still a loss, it‘s just one that you chose to accept.

Now as for carrying the receipts some people do this because well for the most part police interference, the by the anti-gun cops will give grief regardless of this law or not.

Sounds like more rationalization of placing added burdens on gun owners, thereby resulting in a further loss of freedom.

IOW, because some Police break the law, we will use it as justification to further restricts the rights of gun owners. This is even worse that punishing law abiding gun owners for the actions of criminals who use guns for their crimes. It’s like saying, “because the thief broke your door when he burglarize your place, and you complained about it, we’re going to mandate that you keep your door unlocked so that he won’t break it next time, and then make thieving legal”.


The following is not directed toward you Gunnerpalace,

The sad part of this is even though all I’ve been doing is saying that this isn’t the victory that some say it is (and demonstrating that stance through objective analysis and conclusion), some people seem to not approve of those conclusions. So far, only one person has disputed any of them, and I edited my post as a result (not just on this board, but everywhere I posted it). Yet, others have chosen to make their argument about the person, instead of the argument/position. Instead of refuting the observations, they criticize the author. Or, they imply that the points are irrelevant, because they personally don’t have a problem with the added infringements. That’s fine, but it doesn’t make my observations wrong. It only means that such aggressions are agreeable to said individual. I understand that there can be a lot of “grey area” in life, unfortunately that just isn’t the case when you can be fined or jailed for something that was once legal.

Listen, I understand that the change in the safety inspection is a good thing. I’m not disparaging it in the least. All I’m saying is that there is more to this bill than just that part, and it isn’t such a victory because of it.

As I previously stated:

MCRGO has done A LOT for gun owners in this state, and I won't disparage them at this point. I fully understand that they can't do everything right, and win every battle. Yes, this was a loss for our side. The new law is worse than what we now have. However, even though it's worse, it still isn't like they repealed "shall issue", or made OC illegal. In the grand scheme of things I see it as a "slip up", at best. I don't like it, but I'll try to look at the glass half full.

That isn’t complaining. That’s accepting the subject for what it is, and trying to make the most of it. Saying that it’s complaining is like saying that a loss of freedom isn’t a loss of freedom. However, if that’s what you want to believe, then feel free. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

So now I have a question should the law have been left alone with all this sediment that has been stirred?

 

[GigaBuist]

should the law have been left alone with all this sediment that has been stirred?

No. It takes me way more time, and costs me more money, to make a 2nd trip to the police department during a work day when compared to shoving a piece of paper in my wallet and keeping it there for 30 days.