Miculek says: stop sending the wrong message with open carry activism

[barnbwt]

Anyone notice the people in the background nonchalantly ordering 8$ burritos?

You'd think they'd leave if this really scared them that badly (or perhaps people's priorities are so screwed up at this point that they'd continue ordering burritos even if some guy came in juggling two ARs and a throttling chainsaw )

What I think, is this is a slightly more justified occasion of the high-pitched squealing overreaction MDA/MDSGC/MDGS/MAIG/etc. visits upon anyone they notice carrying; particularly when those carriers happen to be protesting them specifically. I recall some other incident in Dallas involving OC'ers demonstrating where MAIG held their little get togethers to figure out how to busy-body more efficiently; they called the cops then, as well, when it was nothing more than people handing out literature with signs, IIRC. Quite honestly, I think OC protestors who have the cops called when anti-groups are being protested need to demand the names of people calling 911, because it's a crime to call police when you know damn well --as activist anti's most certainly do at this point-- that an activity is perfectly legal.

These bozos were just obnoxious enough to give people the cover they needed to react in an "outraged" manner, even though, obnoxious though they were, they weren't exactly harassing anyone, as best we can tell. It's honestly no more offensive than the average hard-core goth, tattoo/piercing enthusiast, or couple that likes to neck in public, and we tolerate them. Just sayin'

TCB

 

[NavyLCDR]

LCDR, the issue is that companies are reacting to this behavior by posting their properties and restricting not just open carry, but all carry. Starbucks tried for a long time the remain neutral while open carry advocates acted like obnoxious fools, turning businesses into rallying places.

In some states posting a business no firearms allowed might not carry any real penalty, but in some it does.

And, again, exactly what GOOD is us speaking out against their actions going to do? Why do we have to join the anti march against them? Do you not agree that these people are seeking negative attention? And we are providing them with exactly what fuels them? Again, we are not hindering them by speaking out against them, we are ENCOURAGING them by giving them exactly what they want and expect.

We point to them and say they are doing more harm than good. Well, one finger pointed at them and we have three fingers on the same hand point back at us. We might be right - but that does not mean that we are not also doing more harm than good.

 

[barnbwt]

Well, you know what the gesture is when you point all four fingers at someone... (hand gesture metaphor fail )

 

[Schwing]

I would like to make a comparison here. Severely anti second amendment people (Boxer, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, etc), have done more to further gun ownership in America than the NRA over the last few years. Their loud and frenetic calls for "Common sense" gun laws, have panicked people into getting guns and getting involved for the fear of losing the right.

I would compare these fellows to the folks on the left. They create more fear against gun ownership than Al Gore at a million mother march. They damage our cause more than those who are organized against us.

Say what you will, justify it how you will but it is ridiculous behavior and causes horrible damage to our image (Those who support 2A rights).

 

[hso]

Someone provide a posting on a store or a letter/email from the corporate representatives.

We do NOT need to start calling companies that don't want to be dragged into the cat fight between extremists Antis when they just want to keep attention hounds off their property.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Deleted

 

[Warp]

You have to realize - speaking out against their actions is ENCOURAGING them to continue - not hindering them.

I'm not so sure about that. I think most of them just don't 'get it'

 

[Warp]

These bozos were just obnoxious enough to give people the cover they needed to react in an "outraged" manner, even though, obnoxious though they were, they weren't exactly harassing anyone, as best we can tell. It's honestly no more offensive than the average hard-core goth, tattoo/piercing enthusiast, or couple that likes to neck in public, and we tolerate them. Just sayin'

TCB

Yeah...but we can't ignore that these guys seemingly hand loaded guns in their hands. There is a difference between having tattoos and piercings...and randomly standing in a restaurant with a gun in your hands

 

[conw]

As I also said in that other thread, social media like FB and Twitter will be the end of this country.

This is rather inscrutable seeing as it's posted on a message board...

 

[conw]

I would like to make a comparison here. Severely anti second amendment people (Boxer, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, etc), have done more to further gun ownership in America than the NRA over the last few years. Their loud and frenetic calls for "Common sense" gun laws, have panicked people into getting guns and getting involved for the fear of losing the right.

I would compare these fellows to the folks on the left. They create more fear against gun ownership than Al Gore at a million mother march. They damage our cause more than those who are organized against us.

Say what you will, justify it how you will but it is ridiculous behavior and causes horrible damage to our image (Those who support 2A rights).

That's a truly brilliant analogy!

 

[Sol]

If it's already legal to OC, then what are they protesting exactly?

I think a leaflet drop would have been more effective. Just stick them on cars with some catchy sayings and bright colors just to remind people that they still have the right to OC.

Better yet, Laural and Hardy could pawn off some of the tactical equipment I'm 99% they have (underhanded) and donate or collaborate an appleseed program, just to get people interested in guns/ shooting.

You just can't throw the kiddies into the deep end of the pool, you got to ease them in.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The really irritating part is this took place in Dallas. Currently, Greg Abbott (Governor) and Dan Patrick and David Dewhurst (Lt. Gov.) support expanding open carry in Texas - and none of these guys are long shot third-party candidates. Abbott and Patrick are both leading in the polls and are well-financed, solid campaigns.

Instead of carrying rifles into a downtown restaurant, these guys could volunteer to man phones, go door to door, put out yard signs and do things that would actually get people elected and change things. So I'm wondering why they thought this was a more effective way to get open carry?

 

[JRH6856]

what are these idiots names?

If you haven't found out by now, the one on the right with the SKS is Alfonso Delcampo.

 

[DBR]

I think "in your face" behavior is counter productive for any cause. Discrete OC is OK by me but flaunting the fact one has a firearm is a bad idea IMO for several reasons including personal safety of the carrier. I doubt many "open carriers" have any training in firearms retention. They may just be arming the bad guys should an incident occur.

 

[Jeff White]

I thought the whole purpose of our movement was to make private citizens carrying firearms part of normal life?

What part of normal life in the USA entails carrying long weapons into a restaurant? Our cities aren't that bad yet and if I thought I needed my M4 to go out to dinner I wouldn't go.

Stunts like this do our cause more harm then good. It reinforces the image the Washington Post and New York Times editorial cartoon artists like to use.

That we are all a bunch of uneducated, hillbilly types who settle all human problems by shooting something or someone.

This kind of "in your face activism" isn't winning us any friends. It simply reinforces old stereotypes that we've spent years trying to eliminate. THR is different then the other gun forums for exactly that reason. Why do you think we don't allow the chest beating, kill em all and let God sort them out rants here ?

It's not because the staff is a bunch of wimps and are offended by it. It's because we want a place on the net where people can see gun owners as they really are, normal everyday people.

Normal, everyday people don't walk into a restaurant with long guns in single point slings.

Having spent 20 years in the Infantry, let me tell you it's not convenient to carry a rifle everywhere you go.

If you are the type of person who wants to be famous and get a lot of likes on Facebook or whatever they use by posting a photo of yourself in the local eatery carrying a long weapon, then in my opinion you are hurting our cause for your own personal celebrity. You are hurting our cause and are most likely too immature to carry a firearm.

There is a time and a place for in your face activism and this isn't it.

 

[JERRY]

id bet these guys are Democrat plants set up to make gun owners look bad.

 

[Old Dog]

What would most of you do if you walked into the front door of your local Chipotle and saw some guy in front of the salsa bar holding an unslung AR? I'm sure the first thought in your mind would be that it was just some local OC activist posing from photos, right?

I'm not sure what I'd do if some jackwagon was posing in one of my local eateries with an unslung AR or AK ... But there's a good possibility I'd be directing him to depart the premises asap, after he spent some time becoming closely acquainted with the floor ... and that's IF I was able to quickly ascertain that he just wanted to pose for some Facebook photos.

The photos I saw of this incident disgusted me no end. That's not political activism, it's sheer stupidity.

 

[larryh1108]

It appears that they did it just because they can. What activism were they purporting? Did they have signs or chant sayings or did they do it to get on facebook or twitter? Maybe someone dared them to do it. It was immature and not well thought out.

As others have mentioned, their stupid actions have hurt the OC cause more then help it. Another chain has banned guns because of it. How many others are sitting on the fence and take "protests" like this seriously when considering taking a side?

These kids don't seem to care what the gun community thinks. Yes, we are 95% against this specific action. Maybe they have a hard core pro-gun guy who they were trying to impress and they want his approval. If they see we all think they are clowns then perhaps they will realize it was just plain, stupid. Then again, maybe not. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[HexHead]

This is rather inscrutable seeing as it's posted on a message board...

Corporations don't make knee jerk reactions based on THR postings.

 

[HexHead]

I think "in your face" behavior is counter productive for any cause.

I guess you haven't been paying attention to the progress gays have made? Maybe we need OC Pride Parades?

They may just be arming the bad guys should an incident occur.

And there will be blood in the streets, it will be like the Wild West if carry permits are allowed. Sound familiar?

 

[Spats McGee]

I for one am growing weary of people who think acting in obnoxious ways has no consequences because of a 2A right. No, there might not be support to have a bill making OC an illegal act in a state legislature or on the federal level, but business will respond just like Starbucks and Chipotle have. And that most certainly does affect me.

And I also, and me also.

And I, as well.

OC is legal there, fine. I suppose the right to do something includes the right to do it in stupid ways, and that's exactly what we have here. An OC demonstration where leaflets are handed out, or signs are carried or there is *some* indication that a demonstration is happening, well, that's one thing. Two random dudes walking into a restaurant with rifles in a downtown metropolitan area? That's entirely inappropriate. My first thought would not be that they're OC activists. My first thought would be that we're about to have an incident.

Stunts like this do our cause more harm then good. It reinforces the image the Washington Post and New York Times editorial cartoon artists like to use.

That we are all a bunch of uneducated, hillbilly types who settle all human problems by shooting something or someone.

This is why we need to distance ourselves from bozos like this.

 

[plmitch]

Are they the best the NRA has to offer as role models..

 

[IBEWBULL]

Just a note:
All Democrats are not liberal, progressive or leftist.

All Republicans are not anti union.

All union members are not Democrats.

All NRA members are not politically active.

Freedom gives us the right to succeed or fail. This includes making mistakes. None of us are perfect.
I would like to see comments form those who chose to carry long guns into public places just to STIR THE POT. Are they proud of their actions? Are they regretting it.
Will they ever hold a job? I for one would not hire anyone so dang foolish.

Now lets stop beating the "Dead Horse"

 

[627PCFan]

I just scrolled through his facebook page. He does have multiple ties to the Open Carry Texas. Coincidence?


Questionable friends whom the majority may not be citizens....Interesting.

 

[Sam1911]

I guess you haven't been paying attention to the progress gays have made? Maybe we need OC Pride Parades?

Frank Ettin has posted a very good demolition of that comparison. The gay rights movement has had a significant set of additional elements which we don't have and which lent weight and credibility to their more outrageous, in-your-face protest actions.

Plus, of course, no dude actually ever walked into a public place and killed 20+ people by kissing another dude. Some folks have indeed walked into a public place with a rifle and the results were just that bad.

So leave off that analogy. It is inapt, at best.