Mind my own business, or inform carrier?

[danez71]

No we don't need to be meddlesome. And I do try not to intrude.

Again, I couldn't say for sure since I wasnt there.

To me, I'd appreciate a kindly heads up "sir, I'm not sure if you know...your wallet is coming out (when he reaches back to check) "up higher". Or like said ealier " is that a 642?"


But, I don't think it's much different than pointing out that someone has a low/flat tire. I'd appreciate a heads up... even if I already knew.

 

[AStone]

After thinking about this some, and while respecting diverse views here -- it's NOT a cut and dried case at all -- I think I would have just did as the OP did and not said anything.

I wouldn't tell a complete stranger that his fly was open. (Let his gf tell him that.) Likewise, I wouldn't have said a thing to this guy, while being thankful that it was me behind him, and not a psychopath that could have snatched the gun, killed the owner, then taken me out (before I could get my 9 onto him).

Now if I'd been in a state that wasn't OC, I'd have probably said something out of courtesy.

But in this case, in this gray area, I'd have just let natural selection run its course.

 

[Red Wind]

Darwin appears. Again!

 

[AStone]

^ Good to see you again, Red.

I'm no longer down there in that warm state,
but back in the home state where cold stays long.
(I'm wearing three torso layers while sitting in the sun here this afternoon
on probably the third warmest day this spring, but with a stiff, bitter wind,
and that includes a Carhartt vest and some mountaineering insulation.
But it makes CC very easy, even for my SR9c. {LC9s is coming for summer.)

If you get up this way -- far N, E -- let me know. We'll have a beer and burger.

Sincerely,
Charlie

 

[MIL-DOT]

I try to never miss an opportunity to mind my own business.

I appreciate others who do the same.

This is a fair point, and sometimes it's definitely the best option, but there's also something to be said for just trying to give someone a freindly heads-up, like when they're about to pull out of a gas station, and their gas cap is still on the roof of their car.
I've pointed out to strangers that they had a $20 bill sticking half-way out of their pocket.
A little while back, while paying at a Wal-mart check-out line, the cashier realized the old lady before me left one of her bags. I instantly said, "I got it", grabbed the bag, and ran way down to the exit and caught her just before leaving the store.
That surely wasn't my problem, or any of my buisness, be she sure as hell appreciated it.
If I was "open-carrying", when I thought I was concealing, I would also a appreciate a subtle heads-up, versus a "ain't my problem" attitude from someone that noticed it.

 

[Old Fuff]

In Arizona it's not uncommon to encounter someone open carrying in public, but in the present case it's quite possible that the gentleman with the gun didn't have a Concealed Weapon Permit (which isn't required to carry concealed) but believed that without a permit he had to open carry.

The issue is a bit confused. Although a permit is not required, it is still available to those who what to get one. Why do so? Because those that have one can avoid the background check procedure when buying a gun from a dealer (they simply enter the permit number on the 4473 form); and the permit is also recognized and valid in some other states.

I mean environments where The Hoplophobe is in attendance.

They'll get used to it.

Maybe, but it's more likely if they are antagonized they'll become dedicated gun control advocated - who can not only vote, but may influence others. Upsetting those who are perhaps worried but not yet afraid is a good way to find down the road we're facing more restrictions. Concealed carry among other things, prevents the peaceable ones from suffering alarm.

 

[DeepSouth]

I try to never miss an opportunity to mind my own business.

I appreciate others who do the same.

While I completely agree this, I also like a complement.

Instead of "hey, your guns showing" try something like "that's a nice Sig (or whatever) you have there."
Small talk doesn't generally come across as bossy or getting into someone else's business.

 

[Red Wind]

Good to see you again, Red.

I'm no longer down there in that warm state,
but back in the home state where cold stays long.
(I'm wearing three torso layers while sitting in the sun here this afternoon
on probably the third warmest day this spring, but with a stiff, bitter wind,
and that includes a Carhartt vest and some mountaineering insulation.
But it makes CC very easy, even for my SR9c. {LC9s is coming for summer.)

If you get up this way -- far N, E -- let me know. We'll have a beer and burger.

Sincerely,
Charlie

Good to see and hear from you, Charlie! You have not changed a bit in 150 years! I will do everything possible to have that Maine burger and beer with you. And now that Maine has permit less carry, it's all good.

 

[danez71]

I would also a appreciate a subtle heads-up, versus a "ain't my problem" attitude from someone that noticed it.

'Ain't my problem' often does become that when/if a backlash happens.


EX: "Ain't my problem those states have oppressive laws...mine doesnt..."

2 days and 50 threads later.....

"Dang people from those states are moving to my state... "

Now it is his problem or maybe his kid's problem.

(See sig)

Or, 'not my problem he got busted in that store' turns into 'dang store posted 30-06 and 30-07 signs because some tool '. (I think those are the statues for no carry in TX, example only)

But I guess, from the looks of this thread and the many others like it in terms of supporting each other, the Pro 2A group is a lot less 'United We Stand, Divide We Fall' than I had hoped.

 

[AStone]

And now that Maine has permit-less carry, it's all good.

<Best Mainer accent> Ah' yup.

People up here carry open in the (great north) woods all day, everyday. Ain't no thing.

But in town and stores, we can carry concealed legally w/o permit.
There are decided advantages to getting that permit, and I will soon.

But for now, it's good to know when I hike on the trail near sundown,
I'm legal if I pack it along ...

... 'long as I remember to tuck my shirt in at 5:00.

 

[Aragon]

Possibly outweighed by the deterrence advantage.

"deterrence"? Open carriers project something very different to me than "deterrence."

 

[AKElroy]

"deterrence"? Open carriers project something very different to me than "deterrence."

Does that include police? They OC everyday, and for the same reason many choose to OC. It is simply faster to bring a weapon to the ready when it is in the open vs drawing from concealment. It is also more comfortable to carry openly, particularly compared to IWB. Some folks view these advantages as more important than worrying about others opinions.

 

[jcwit]

I normally open carry, as far as someone snatching the piece, they really don't want to come up against the back-up either.

 

[mikestone967]

In this case he's open carrying in a un-secure holster behind his back which is the direction you have the least situational awareness.

It's also on area of your body that you give up most of your arm strength to reach to.

Not many other worst ways to OC, imo.

How do you know it's "unsecured" because it's "open top"?

I have retention holsters that are "open top" that you wouldn't be able to just pull out my gun and "shoot me" multiple times before I could react..
Can you say Serpa?

 

[yugorpk]

"deterrence"? Open carriers project something very different to me than "deterrence."

You arent looking to rob a liquor store. Most criminals like to go home at the end of the day . A potential robbery, mugging, assault...whatever could easily be averted when a potential thief or "bad guy" sees a good guy with a gun. Its one thing to stop a threat. Its another thing to stall or stop a threat from happening altogether. Its just a lot easier to pick on peopke you know or think arent armed. Doing it the other way is too much risk and work. I occasionally open carry mostly on my way into or out of the woods where I go a lot. When I concealed carry I don't really bother to conceal it all that much. Doesnt matter to me. The last people I care about are the people who look down on me for carrying a gun openly.

 

[mnrivrat]

Apparently many of you have not spent any time in AZ. I have not been in a grocery there very often whith out seeing someone open carry.

If you would have grabbed the gun from its holster , you better have been ready to shoot him. Otherwise you may not have survived.

The culture there does not get worked up about seeing a gun --- so I will tell you to mind your own business. It is better for your health.

 

[X-Rap]

Yes, if you would have been at an HEB in Austin you probably would not have been out of line to point out the fact he had a gun exposed but not so much at a Bashas in AZ.
It's like the old real estate saw, location location location.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Shaq]

Pretty amusing to hear someone compare the uniformed-officer's open carry holster with several layers of retention to the typical holster worn by most open carriers - that rely on friction or a thumbsnap.

 

[Theohazard]

Guys. Don't let this degenerate into yet another thread debating the practice of open carry. That's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

Personally, I don't open carry because I don't like to draw attention to myself. But I strongly support the right to open carry and I think the option should be there for anyone who needs or wants to exercise that right. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

 

[CDW4ME]

He probably posts on gun forums about how he halfway conceals and "nobody ever notices or says anything".


Not saying anything doesn't equal oblivion or acceptance, rather MYOB and / or regard for personal safety, ie... not potentially instigate an altercation with someone that could be unstable or aggressive.

 

[Tirod]

If Open Carry is dangerous enough to be prohibited for the carriers protection . . .

You see where this is going?

It's a free country. OC is not regulated there. If someone sees another person who chooses to have his gun out in the open, it's his business and nobody else's. And while I generally agree with the tactical benefits of concealed carry, cops don't, and the only time it's an issue is when they are doing what they get paid to do - encounter and have close confrontations with distraught or criminal types. We don't, by and large. We avoid them deliberately.

"I could have reached out and got the gun and pumped him full of lead" isn't really a speculative tactical observation, it's blatantly stating complete disrespect for another gun carrier, and considering they were older, involves age bias. Apparently some old fool needs to be taught a lesson? Obvious to me there's a significant lack of appreciation for someone else's rights and how they prefer to demonstrate them.

We often discuss a certain portion of the shooting community who are steeped in tradition and the use of very old school weapons, who seem to accept restrictions on others choice and use of guns, but it's a two way street. This is a good example of the CCW community disrespecting them. We don't have to agree on what guns we like or how to carry them, but we should be focused on the fact we can exercise our freedom to do so as we see fit.

No, it shouldn't be mentioned at all. It's legal and nobody's business. Other's may, I cannot, but I'm not going around preaching to them how wrong they are just because I don't.

And on a very selfish note, if they want to be the first open target in a shootout fine by me. Who knows, they could carry the day anyway, but worst case I get time to react while the perp is dealing with them. CCW becomes the good guy tailgunner in that scenario and it has been demonstrated to work well.

 

[X-Rap]

Bottom line, if you live in AZ and intend to notify everyone you see exposing their sidearm you will be a busy fellow. AZ has a higher number of OCers than any place I've been, for them it goes back much further than the CC movement.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[WVsig]

Can you say Serpa?

Yes I can also say accidental discharge into ones thigh area.

 

[Sam1911]

So this is just another open-vs.-concealed debate, because some of us just aren't mature enough to stop ourselves (or hit the "report post" button).

To sum up:

1) He may have been deliberately carrying openly in a rather awkward fashion, with his "cover" shirt bunched up over the gun. Not my first guess, but could be.

2) He may have been carrying concealed and his shirt GOT bunched up over this gun, exposing it. That kind of sounds like how I'd have read the situation, but I wasn't there.

3) There are some pretty gentle and slick ways of bringing up the subject as a non-threatening, low-key conversation. Some of y'all are pretty smart about that sort of thing and know that -- whether he was trying to OC or trying to CC -- you can turn a little word of aid into a happy few moments of chit-chat with a fellow gun guy. Maybe make a friend! Lord knows some of y'all sound like ya need one.

4) Hey, talking to strangers is SCAAARY! He might be ALL OFFENDED because he's an open carry DIE HARD and you just deeply offended him by suggesting that his shirt was bunched up over his gun! Why, maybe it's much safer just to keep weeery, weeery quiet and just avoid contact with another human.

What was it John Wayne said? "I won't be spoken to. I won't be greeted. I won't be engaged in conversation. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” Something like that...


And...

5) I'll carry open sometimes. I carry concealed a lot of the time. It doesn't matter which, or either, here so there's no harm either way.

BUT, I DANGED SURE would want someone to tell me if I was walking around like a sloppy moron with my shirt tail bunched up in my belt, my collar, my holster, or whatever else. That just looks slovenly and unkempt. I'd be mighty thankful if someone would help keep me from looking so unpresentable -- whether my gun is covered or not!