Mini-14 ranch rifle Vs Sig 556!

[crazyivan]

So what do you think?
I think they are that gun in the middle of the ARs accuracy and the AKs reliabilty.
AR vs AK debates are pointless but a Sig 556 vs Mini-14 ranch rifle sounds like a good match too me.
So here is how I see it:

Mini-14 ranch rifle
Pros:
Cost less.
Mags are stronger(but not AK tough)
Has great iron sights already with the gun.

Cons:
Mags cost a lot more.
Can not co-witness irons with optic.
Cant put as much stuff on it as a Sig.


Sig 556
Pros:
Mags cost less.
Can co-witness with iron sights.
Can put more stuff on and a grip closer to the mag.

Cons:
Weaker mags
Cost more.
need to get your own good sights for it.

 

[Hanzo581]

Right now you can get a Sig 556 for $971 shipped no tax, and I am not sure about the con referencing weak mags as they can take Pmags.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_397/products_id/60740

 

[Kurt_D]

Sig's pros: 1) cheap available mags with many options - plastic, aluminium and steel - 20, 30, 40, 100 round drums - and IT'S RELIABLE WITH THEM!!! 2) better for optics w/ picatinny rail 3) classic has a decent folder that's adjustable 4) back up irons are on par with the Mini's standard irons, but then there are much better options available too 5) accuracy all day long is better with the Sig, especially with 62gr + ammo and it's 1:7 twist 6) nitride coated barrel will last longer 7) several quality RAS available 8) built like a tank 9) adjustable gas system 10) AKish bolt/carrier system

Sig's cons: 1) couple hundred dollars more expensive 2) weights a little more or is maybe a little more front heavy

Mini's pros: it's cheaper...

Mini's cons: 1) less accurate 2) slower twist rate (no go for 75gr rounds, tried it) 3) not modular 4) so-so sights with proprietary rings for scopes 5) proprietary mags that are only available from 1 source and they are expensive; re-productions are from shotty manufacturers and not reliable

 

[unwise11]

Mini has an action that will run more reliably.
and also looks less evil, should it ever appear in court. and honestly. I prefer shooting a mini to and AR or SIG. though I have not shot a sig, I have shot AR's and there is one in the household. so theres the Mini's vote.

 

[Zanad]

mini-14 because I know its going to go bang every time I pull the trigger.
mags, while not cheap(cheapest I've bought were ruger factory for ~25 ea before shipping online), are very strong and reliablity only goes up compared to other aftermarket mags.

Price: look online and you can find some good deals. I bought a mini-30 and even with the dreaded "warm barrel" I dont have any of the stringing for around $500. I've seen older mini-14s for around $375 locally.

 

[Hanzo581]

Um...the Sig runs a system very similar to an AK, not sure I would give the Mini-14 the edge in reliability...

 

[crazyivan]

Yeah I think im leaning to the Sig due to the AK type bolt and the ablility to put all kinds of stuff on it.
Someday I hope to have both!

 

[Hanzo581]

I don't know what you are looking to add to it, but the 556 is front heavy as is.

 

[Girodin]

Mini's pros: it's cheaper...

By the time you factor in the price of buying a number of magazines (which will also be usable in a number of other platforms) the price is pretty close, making the Sig 556 the clear choice as far as I'm concerned for the reasons others have stated above.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

Not that I'm a big fan of .223, but Sig makes one hell of a gun.

 

[crazyivan]

Yes all good points.
So Sigs are front heavy?
I have only held them a few times so I dont realy know.
I have shoot a mini-14 and got 3" groups with wolf 55gr. Thats bad if it cant shoot heavy stuff.
If I got a Sig or a mini-14 it would be a fun gun/light weight camp or truck gun.

 

[Girodin]

I prefer shooting a mini to and AR or SIG. though I have not shot a sig,

Classic.

Mini has an action that will run more reliably.

There is no basis upon which to say the mini is more relaible

 

[FlyinBryan]

in the mini's "cons", you forgot to put "cant hit the broad side of a barn, even while standing in it"

 

[crazyivan]

Is that a joke?
With iron sights I did 3" groups at 100yds with russian ammo!
But of course it is a new mini-14 so you might be thinking of the old crapy minis.

 

[crazyivan]

Has anyone here tried the Sig with russian ammo?

 

[desidog]

I don't have much experience with Sigs, but

The old Minis are definitely not crap. Sure, they have thin barrels that tend to shift zero when they get hot, but so will some pencil profile AR's. If you're hunting and shooting beyond the fifth shot in rapid succession, you're doing something wrong. I've killed many coyotes between 2-300yds with an old Ranch rifle; cold zero is all you need for hunting...but it also helps to know that on mine, hot zero is up and to the right. every time. all day long.

You can also get an ultimak rail for the mini, further improving sight options.

 

[Art Eatman]

My four early model Mini-14s all shot about two MOA or a tad better for three-shot groups with a K4 on top. Plenty good for coyotes and jackrabbits. Minute-of-jackrabbit-chest at 100 yards seems reasonable. (Jackrabbits didn't think so, of course.)

 

[Hatterasguy]

Owning both I can safely say the Sig is miles ahead of the mini 14 in all regards. Heck I don't even shoot my mini 14 anymore, and if it wasn't a gift I would have sold it off long ago.

IMHO the mini 14 is not a very good rifle, the barrel is to thin, mags are expensive, and the action is chunky for what it is. Its like a fat M1 carbine or shrunk M14, I just don't get the point.

Get the Sig its a real rifle. I don't know what you mean about weak mags, the Swiss mags that the 550 uses are very strong. The 556 takes any AR mag including Pmags which can be run over by a Humvee and still function. I highly doubt Rugers stamped steel mags could match that.

If you want something that's like the Mini 14 but actually a good rifle get an M1 carbine.

 

[Girodin]

Has anyone here tried the Sig with russian ammo?

I've never heard anyone say their gun had issues running it. The worst complaint seems to be you may get the little worn spot near the ejection port slightly sooner than with brass.

My four early model Mini-14s all shot about two MOA or a tad better for three-shot groups

Ever shoot any five (or more) shot groups?

The mini just makes no sense to me. It isn't as accurate or ergonomic or as readily configurable to my needs/desires as an AR.

It is no more accurate than my saiga 223 and certainly no more reliable or durable. It is however a great deal more expensive.

In sum, I can get everything the mini offers for less and more for the same price and significantly more for not that much more.

They are what they are and may be good enough for various applications but again they just don't make a lot of sense to me. I do like the way they look for whatever that's worth. If the question is whether the mini is good enough that is one thing. If the question is whether something else is better that is a different matter.

cold zero is all you need for hunting.

If you're hunting and shooting beyond the fifth shot in rapid succession, you're doing something wrong.

That depends on the type of hunting you are doing. P dogs can tend to heat a barrel up and a gun that is shifting zero a lot when hot and heats up quickly is going to be an issue on longer shots., I've also gotten into areas where there are a lot of Jackrabbits more than once in my life and had more than five present themselves in very short periods of time.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Is that a joke?
With iron sights I did 3" groups at 100yds with russian ammo!
But of course it is a new mini-14 so you might be thinking of the old crapy minis.

no, it was serious, but only directed at the older stainless mini14 that i had in the mid 80's

it was before they had provisions for mounting a scope (which is when i became familiar with the term "ranch rifle", as this was the first model with the machined dovetails.

it was so-so for the first 2-3 shots. (10" @ 100 yds) and after that it shot REALLY bad.

it had decent irons (and i had decent vision in the mid 80's), but it was so bad i still tried a b-square mount that was available at the time.

it didnt help:/

so ive never had the desire to own another. (not that better ones dont exist, i am certain they do, but i just never trusted my luck enough to try to secure a better one)

i had lots of mags and goodies for it, and held out till it was able to fetch 500 dollars (in about 1990)

i took that 500 and 300 of my own cash and bought a new colt match target rifle. its just been ar15's since then.

as stated, i know there are accurate ones out there.

i will never own one (unless one is ever given to me, then ya, sure)

 

[GunTech]

I've owned 5 Mini-14s. The last was the new 16 inch (58x series). The Mini has gotten a lot better as far as accuracy, but it is still basically a 3 MOA rifle with good ammo. You can spend a lot of money and get one to shoot MOA - a lot of money.

All that being said, it is not in the same class as the SIG, which is basically a repackaged AK in a very nice package. Reliability of first rate, even with horrific corroded Guatemalan surplus 223. It will outshoot the Mini-14 all day long.

The only downside I can see is the Sig costs a few hundred bucks more.

If you lived someplace like California where owning a military style rifle is strictly regulated, I can see a place for the Mini. The 6.8 and 7.62x39 versions have merit for hunting where 5.56 is restricted.

As far as either rifle, accessories are more limited when compared to the AR platform.

Finally, I hate the fact that to remove the bolt on the Mini, you have to remove the ejector.

I liked both my Mini-14 and My SIG556 but kept neither. If I want an uber-reliable, moderately accurate blaster, I have my AKs. For accuracy, it's hard to beat a tuned AR. Just go to a service rifle match and see what all the top scorers are shooting.

Finally, AFAIC a one (or two or three) MOA rifle is one that will shoot 5 or 10 round groups that are less than MOA CTC consistently. Not 'I once shot a three inch group', but rather said rifle will perform that way every time, in front of witnesses.

If you only look at the allowable variance in most military ammo and know a little bit about probability, you know that regardless of rifle, statistically you are only going to shoot 3 or 4 or 5 MOA groups.

For example, the acceptance standard for the M-14, a rifle many regard as fairly accurate, was 5.5 inch group at 100 yards, and almost half of the M14s produced in the first year of manufacture failed!!

This was primarily due to variance in ammunition, but the reality is that most rifles are far less precise (repeatable) than most people realize. Anyone can shoot 20 groups and get one or two that are really good, even with crap ammo. That's nothing more than the law of probability in action.

Getting consistent groups - particularly ones with more than a few rounds - in a very repeatable fashion, is a very different matter.

 

[crazyivan]

I based that 3" grouping with wolf off of 4 5-shot groups.
when I asked about the Sig and Russian ammo I was asking about accuracy.

 

[againstthagrane]

With iron sights I did 3" groups at 100yds with russian ammo!

What were those, 2 shot groups? LOL!

 

[rbernie]

I have owned both.

The Sig is a more refined package in most ways, but I do not cotton to its handling - it's a front-heavy pig. The Mini14 takes a lot of flack for its accuracy shortcomings, but it handles well and is (in my hands) faster on-target than the Sig. I have had excellent luck with recent-manufacture ProMags in my Mini14s; while they remain twice as expensive as USGI AR mags, they have proven quite reliable.

Given these two choices - inside of 100 yards I'd take the Mini14 but much past 100 yards I'd probably take the Sig.

 

[GunTech]

Just to clarify - accuracy means the the rounds strike such that the center of dispersion is close to the point of aim. Precision means the rounds strike with smaller dispersion. A rifle can be accurate without being precise - meaning the rifle shoots big groups but there are evenly dispersed around the point of aim. A rifle can also be precise, meaning it shoots small groups, but off target. A precise rifle can be made accurate by adjusting the sights/scope. And accurate rifle that is not precise requires altering the ammunition or the rifle or both.