Mini-30?

[danez71]

If a person likes the ergo's of a traditional rifle but wants most of the benefits of the AR system, the Ares Defense SCR is a winner:

The pistol grip rifles just dont speak to me.... which is a bummer for me.

That's the rifle I'll probably get 'if/when' I jump into another 223/556 semi auto.


I had a mini 14. I dont think it had a single malfunction in the close to 20 yrs I had it.


Its a Ranch rifle; Not a battle weapon. Accuracy was fine until you start stringing rounds off.


Most people dont need to perform a mag dump, let alone multiple mag dumps, just to take care of that darn coyote.

 

[kBob]

Jackal,

Why am I suddenly reminded of the Kel Tec SU16 series?

Of course they are in .223, but just as ugly as what you posted.

-kBob

 

[jhb]

I love the minis but for the price they are not worth it. Ironically ruger makes great pistols and revolvers that are as good if not better dollar for dollar compared to the competition, and for a lot less than the competition. When it comes to the minis they are the the opposite.

Ruger is completely disconnected from the market on their pricing with the minis.

 

[WardenWolf]

That trigger sure doesn't look very comfortable to reach, Jackal. They could have done that stock so much better.

I agree that the SKS isn't a very good alternative anymore. While they can be modified to take detachable magazines fairly easily, the accuracy of Mini-30's has been improved to the point where they're a little better than the average SKS. They're also a lot easier to attach optics to. They had their day in that role, but that day has passed.

The Mini-30 isn't terrible anymore. The VEPR is, admittedly, heavier. If that's what you like, go for it. It's a solid gun.

 

[ugaarguy]

That trigger sure doesn't look very comfortable to reach, Jackal. They could have done that stock so much better.

The design uses a Remington 7400 stock. The trigger reach is the same as most Remington pump and semi-auto shotgun and rifles made in the past 65 years.

The problem is, from a user's perspective, that a rifle designed structurally to satisfy two worlds of form and function ends up satisfying neither.

So you've owned an Ares SCR and came that conclusion after handling and use? I'd love to read more from someone with firsthand experience.

 

[danez71]

The design uses a Remington 7400 stock. The trigger reach is the same as most Remington pump and semi-auto shotgun and rifles made in the past 65 years.


So you've owned an Ares SCR and came that conclusion after handling and use? I'd love to read more from someone with firsthand experience.

I've only held one; not fired one.

My hands usually fit well in a Med glove well but my fingers are on the shorter side. For Ex, DA triggers are always too much of a stretch.

My impression was that it's...unique Not in a bad way, to me anyways.

Build quality seemed acceptable.

Trigger reach was typical and OK considering it was hardly dry fired (I only did once)

Like I said, I may end up getting one because I don't care for pistol grip rifles.

 

[Jackal]

One nice thing about the Ares is that you can use most any AR upper. It can be which ever caliber you want it to be, as they sell just the lower half as well.

 

[agtman]

I've only held one; not fired one.

Same here. You don't need to "own" them to find they're ergonomics odd, as against the traditional AR. LGS had a couple come through so I've handled them more than once.

 

[danez71]

Same here. You don't need to "own" them to find they're ergonomics odd, as against the traditional AR

... you can tell from a picture the ergos are different.

I'm not sure what you're basing this comment on

The problem is, from a user's perspective, that a rifle designed structurally to satisfy two worlds of form and function ends up satisfying neither.

This should satisfy anyone that doesn't want a pistol gripped rifle. Ergos are intuitive to that of traditional rifles.

I can appreciate a lot of the attributes of the AR platform.... just not the pistol grip.


But back to the topic...

Minis are overpriced. Maybe it's because of the 40 yr old tooling. Their 77/22 is the same way.

But for what they are intended to be, they're good.

It's just that people want to compare everything to battle weapons.



..... maybe when ISIS starts sending out suicide packs of coyotes and prairydogs across homeland America we will need to put down the minis and surrender. Until then, they serve their intended role pretty well.

 

[agtman]

Quote:
The problem is, from a user's perspective, that a rifle designed structurally to satisfy two worlds of form and function ends up satisfying neither.

This should satisfy anyone that doesn't want a pistol gripped rifle. Ergos are intuitive to that of traditional rifles.
I can appreciate a lot of the attributes of the AR platform.... just not the pistol grip.

Meh, ... I guess if you've spent a couple of decades and another half shooting the AR in its typical configuration (rifle, carbine, SBR), putting a Remy 7400 rear end on it is, well, ... off-putting.

That said, I can see where the Ares SCR stock would appeal to those living in Ban-jurisdictions with a "No-Pistol-Grips/No-Collapsable-Stocks" restriction on semi-auto rifles, but who still want the ability to run a mag-fed AR front-end.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've always been mostly a hunter, when it comes to rifles. For carry in the field, I far and away prefer the Mini over the AR. I've traded in and out of four early-version Minis; all were three-shot two-MOA rifles.

I've had better group sizes from my ARs; presently, my Colt AR is a one-MOA shooter. It's my fifth AR.

Aesthetics keep me from having any interest in an AK or an SKS.

"Better" is a function of your interest, not mine. And vice-versa. What I do has no bearing on what you do--and vice-versa.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

"Better" is a function of your interest, not mine. And vice-versa. What I do has no bearing on what you do--and vice-versa.

There it is. Everyone is different and our wants, likes and needs are different. It reminds me of a line in the old Ricky Nelson song " You can't please everyone so ya gotta please yourself" (Garden Party)

 

[WardenWolf]

I've always been mostly a hunter, when it comes to rifles. For carry in the field, I far and away prefer the Mini over the AR. I've traded in and out of four early-version Minis; all were three-shot two-MOA rifles.

I've had better group sizes from my ARs; presently, my Colt AR is a one-MOA shooter. It's my fifth AR.

Aesthetics keep me from having any interest in an AK or an SKS.

"Better" is a function of your interest, not mine. And vice-versa. What I do has no bearing on what you do--and vice-versa.

Well said. Sounds like you got good Mini's, though. A lot of the earlier ones can best be described as sub-AK accuracy, worse than even most WASRs.

I don't have a Mini-30, but I think I would like one. The light weight is very appealing. However, I already have plenty of semi-automatic normal-stocked rifles, including an SVT-40. Sure, it's long, but it's still only 8 pounds and fires a hell of a cartridge. It's kind of too nice for the woods, though.

 

[ljnowell]

"Better" is a function of your interest, not mine. And vice-versa. What I do has no bearing on what you do--and vice-versa.

Hey mister, that there is what we call logic and common sense, I'm not sure that's allowed on these interwebs anymore.

 

[danez71]

Meh, ... I guess if you've spent a couple of decades and another half shooting the AR in its typical configuration (rifle, carbine, SBR), putting a Remy 7400 rear end on it is, well, ... off-putting.

Right. And the converse is true for those of us that have been shooting traditional stocked rifle for the same amount of time, or more.

That said, I can see where the Ares SCR stock would appeal to those living in Ban-jurisdictions with a "No-Pistol-Grips/No-Collapsable-Stocks" restriction on semi-auto rifles, but who still want the ability to run a mag-fed AR front-end.

And that's another excellent reason why someone would want one too.

Spend less and get a modular rifle that has so much more options available.

It's really a win/win for millions of people in a handful of states.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I remember a well known group of operatives (in the mid-80s I believe), that used the Mini as their go-to rifle on all their missions. To me, that's a solid vote of confidence. I pity the fool that thinks otherwise.

Yeah, and they had a cool "tactical" van too...

Back on topic, I've had an older mini-30 for about 20 years. With the short Burris 4X scope it's handy to carry and accurate enough for a hunting rifle.

 

[RecoilRob]

The Mini 30 kind of has a reputation for not working well with surplus steel-cased ammo...and for very good reason. Look at the cartridge drawings for CIP vs SAAMI spec ammo and notice the subtle differences.

Almost all (if not all) surplus 7.62x39 is CIP and with the Ruger chamber being made for SAAMI 'some' of the rounds will end up with an excessive headspace situation where the firing pin can't reach the primer well enough to reliably detonate it. At least that's the conclusion that I made when I looked into them several years ago and this might not still be the case..but I believe it was back then so if surplus ammo is the reason you're thinking Mini 30...you might be disappointed unless they've made changes to the chambering.

 

[WardenWolf]

The Mini 30 kind of has a reputation for not working well with surplus steel-cased ammo...and for very good reason. Look at the cartridge drawings for CIP vs SAAMI spec ammo and notice the subtle differences.

Almost all (if not all) surplus 7.62x39 is CIP and with the Ruger chamber being made for SAAMI 'some' of the rounds will end up with an excessive headspace situation where the firing pin can't reach the primer well enough to reliably detonate it. At least that's the conclusion that I made when I looked into them several years ago and this might not still be the case..but I believe it was back then so if surplus ammo is the reason you're thinking Mini 30...you might be disappointed unless they've made changes to the chambering.

I don't know where you've been living, Rob, but surplus 7.62x39 is dead. It's been gone for many years now, ever since the ATF declared it armor piercing after they paid someone to make a pistol for it. You can't find it anymore, except on auction sites, and it's expensive (almost collectible).

Also, Ruger fixed it, starting with some incremental changes that, as of a few years ago, resolved all the major issues associated with the Mini-14 / 30 platform. The earliest 30's also had a .308 barrel, which was a poor match for .311 bullets. This resulted in pretty much all domestic 7.62x39 manufacturers using a .308 bullet, with predictable negative results on actual ComBloc guns. Eventually, Ruger fixed it, and so did the ammo companies. But I remember reading there was a lot of anger towards Ruger in the AK community because of how they indirectly messed up the whole local ammo production.

 

[toivo]

Nice hybrid.

The problem is, from a user's perspective, that a rifle designed structurally to satisfy two worlds of form and function ends up satisfying neither.

My understanding is that the design compromises made in rifles like the ARES aren't related to form and function but are strictly for legal reasons, to make these rifles legal in states like New York and California, where pistol grips are an "evil feature."

 

[tarosean]

It's been gone for many years now, ever since the ATF declared it armor piercing after they paid someone to make a pistol for it.

that is a very unique view point you got there.

 

[agtman]

My understanding is that the design compromises made in rifles like the ARES aren't related to form and function but are strictly for legal reasons, to make these rifles legal in states like New York and California, where pistol grips are an "evil feature."

Yes - as acknowledged in post #35 above.

 

[toivo]

Yes - as acknowledged in post #35 above.

Oops -- missed that one.

 

[WardenWolf]

that is a very unique view point you got there.

That's basically what happened. AK pistols didn't start popping up until the last 10 years or so, largely because manufacturers knew this would happen. They wanted a reason to ban surplus ammo, so they convinced a company to make an AK pistol. Since armor piercing handgun rounds are illegal, and surplus ammo is steel core (even though it's very mild steel), they now had their legal justification.

It's been gone a very long time. It may have taken longer to dry up in some areas than others, but I can't tell you the last time I saw it for sale. Note: Tula in a spam can is NOT surplus. It is new-manufactured non-corrosive lead-core ammo, made in old military plants.

 

[SwampWolf]

I've had AR-15s and Mini-14s for many years now and because each excels at different things at different times (for instance, I've competed with an AR-15 at Camp Perry and keep a Mini-14 in the "Ram Box" of my Ram pickup truck), it would be hard to pick between the two if I could only have one. But if I had to choose, because I no longer compete in Service Rifle matches but still drive the truck, it would be the Mini-14. I've come to appreciate the relatively innocuous, non-"assault" rifle appearance of the wood-stocked Mini when it comes to toting it in a vehicle where it is less likely to arouse animus from the naive or give offense to the insipid.

We live in America thankfully-each to his own.

 

[Sam1911]

They wanted a reason to ban surplus ammo, so they convinced a company to make an AK pistol.

I've forgotten, what was the name of that company? And how was it, again, that the ATF's collusion was documented? Been so long the details have slipped my mind.