Minimum barrel length on .357?

[medic_guns]

I was thinging of picking up a model 66 with 2.5 inch barrel, but I think I read somewhere that 3" is the minimum needed to get all of the velocity out of them. Otherwise a +p .38 in 2 inch is nearly as powerful? Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Ric

 

[ilmonster]

Depends what you are using it for. If for self defense, barrel length makes a difference for expansion of a HP bullet. If you are just shooting at the range, doesn't matter how fast the bullet travels, it still makes a hole in the paper.

Also Speer does make some of their Gold Dot rounds specifically for short barreled handguns, which might be enough even out of a 2.5" S&W.

 

[medic_guns]

I carry every day, so I am looking for a reliable man stopper. I am on the fence between a 66 with 2.5 or a 60 with 3 inch. Thanks, Ric.

 

[spiroxlii]

You can get .357 and .38spl loads that use faster burning powders. They're sometimes specifically marketed toward snubnose revolver shooters so you can get max speed out of a short barrel. There are also some available that do well from a short barrel even if they aren't specifically marked for it.

Take a look at the Hornady XTP line.

 

[madcratebuilder]

2.5 or 3 inch won't make much difference to the BG that gets shot with it. That 1/2 inch well make a difference to you if you carry 24/7.

 

[wnycollector]

Here is a nice write-up of the snubbie .38+P vs .357 comparison.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm

On a personal note, the smallest .357 I own is a 2.75" Ruger Security Six. It is as small a revolver as I can shoot with "real" .357 loads. If I need something smaller it will be a S&W J frame loaded with .38+P's.

 

[kludge]

From the above link, out of a S&W Model 19:

Remington .357 Magnum 125-grain SJHP (Full-house load) 1243 fps.

The same ammo out of my 19-3 4" goes ~1420 fps.

If I ever find a snubby Service Six or Speed Six, I'm buying it.

 

[bflobill_69]

For CCW, a 4" barrel is kinda long - but doable! You would get much greater utility from a .357 with a 4" barrel though...

Too get really good fps from a .357 you kinda need a 6" + Barrel... too much powder goes unburned in the shorter barrel lengths.

...but mind you regardless of barrel length I am quite certain I don't want to be on the recieving end!

Bflobill69

 

[Drail]

Barrel length on a .357 pretty much depends on how big a fireball you like. You will get one even out to 5 or 6 inches with a stout load. But even a 3 in. pails in comparison to a .30 carbine fired from a Ruger Blackhawk. Everyone on the range will suddenly stop and go "What the heck was that?"

 

[Bboomer]

For CCW purposes I see no real differences. For me, the smaller the more easily concealed and a little less heft to tote around. Now a more real concern would be, the night time muzzle flash. But, if six won't deter him you had best leave the zoo.

Love them snubs.

 

[Oro]

A 2.5" 66 is nearly the perfect cc gun. Go for it.

There's lots of misinformation heres, so let's clear it up:

1) 2" is about the minimum needed to get a round up to near terminal velocity. Most of the powder burn has happened by then and everything else is marginal.

2) a 2.5" revolver with target sights shoots about as accurately as a 4". I have tested both a Model 66 2.5", 19 2.5", 686 2.5", and 27 3.5" against 66 4", 28 4", and 686 4". The differences in best-rench accuracy were attributable to individual guns and not barrel length at 15 yards. If you plan on shooting past that distance, a concealable pistol is not your best choice.

3) You will get within 100fps of the 4" speed out of 2.5" barrel with the same load. Speer demonstrated this conclusively as long ago as 1971 in their head-to-head tests (see Speer #8). This is simply not a significant difference in terminal ballistics to be worth discussing.

The 2.5" 66 is as close to the perfect carry gun as has ever been invented. Get it, use it, enjoy it. I like it so much I have a few!

 

[GRIZ22]

The difference between a 2 1/2 and 3" is not enough to make any real velocity gains. In theory the extra 1/2" may give you 25-30 fps. In reality you can find 2 1/2 " barrels that give higher velocity than 3" barrels.

 

[Oro]

PS - if you are "on the fence" between a 66 and a 60, have you shot them both? Do this test.

I ask this question as I find the 66 2.5" shoots like a square butt 4" 66 with the .357, and is about as controllable as the 60 with .38. The 60 with .357 is a real handful and not controllable or as quick with follow-on shots. It will take a large amount of dry-firing and range time to get you to not toss your 1st and follow on shots with the 60 loaded with .357.

If you "dope" the test with fat rubber grips, it will skew it. I carry with smooth "magna" style grips and a grip adapter to tighten it up - smallest profile for carry, and a nice compromise for concealability and control.

As to the gun itself, the extra weight and length makes a BIG difference between the two models. I carried a 60 for a while, but after much carrying and shooting, dropped it in favor of the 66/19 2.5". It is much more "shootable" and not much harder to carry. Where I "on the fence" I would jump off on the side of the 66, unless my absolute priority was hiding in on my ankle under long pants. Else a 66 hides about as equally on the belt or under the shoulder. Not as easily, but almost. The other thing about the 66/19 2.5", is that with the right load, you can carry it in grizzly country as a reasonably defense, too. This is a gun that will go from summer cc right up to bear defense in a pinch. Perhaps the most versatile handgun every made. Eight times out of ten I carry a 3" .44mag in bear country, but sometimes I carry hot .357 mag in a 2.5" 66/19 or 3.5" 27 and I do NOT feel "undergunned."

Tip - easiest way to carry a powerful gun I have found is a 66 in a "Roy's Original Pancake" holster - out of production now, but you can find them once a month on ebay or get a reproduction from El Paso or others.

Other tip - read the revolver "check out" section, and if the gun passes, jump on it. They aren't making classic, no-lock 66's any more. They will churn out all the 3" 60 IL models you want. The 60 will depreciate, the 66 won't. It's a no-brainer, really.

 

[spiroxlii]

Oro, I think the accuracy issues people are mentioning with short barreled revolvers is not a problem with the short barrels themselves. We know that in the hands of a skilled shooter, a snubnose will send lead exactly where it's supposed to go. The inaccuracy people talk about with regard to snubnose revolvers seems to be related to the short sight radius, the light weight of many CC-oriented revolvers, and the small grips that can make it difficult for some shooters (but certainly not all) to get a good steady grip.

I love my S&W 637. Its light weight makes it comfortable to carry, and with my standard pressure Hornady XTP 38spl defensive ammo, I'm not really bothered by the recoil even though my gun is so light. My main problems putting lead in tight groups comes from the combination of a short sight radius and the gun's tiny grips. The small grips make this gun super-easy to conceal, but I have large hands and long fingers. The tiny factory grips on a S&W Airweight are a challenge for me to grip well. With practice, I am improving, but I think I will end up getting larger aftermarket grips at the expense of some concealability.

 

[pogo2]

Don't think 1/2 inch matters much

I have S&W model 66s in both 2.5 and 3.0 inch barrel lengths, and I don't think there is much difference in the muzzle velocity for a given ammo. The 2.5 inch guns are more commonly found and a little cheaper.

 

[Brian Dale]

Does the 2 1/2" M-66 have a long enough extractor rod to completely expel fired .357 cases? I'm considering the 2 1/2 vs. 3 inch question, as well.

 

[pogo2]

Extractor rod length

The 3 inch model 66 has a long enough extractor rod to positively extract .357 fired cases. The 2.5 inch extractor rod is not quite long enough, but if you turn the muzzle upwards and give a sharp push, the action of gravity plus momentum will generally expel all six cases. Once in awhile a case will hang up because it expanded on firing, however. Then you have to pluck it out with your fingers.

 

[jaholder1971]

I've never heard of a bad guy asking what length of barrel was on the gun that shot him. He'll either stop and rethink his life or you'll have to shoot again.

 

[CSA 357]

I have owned a few 21/2 inch 357 revolvers, i hope one day to own a 3 inch, it has the full leangh ejecter rod, but i dont have a proublum with the 21/2, but a good hot load is hard on your ears! csa

 

[Brian Dale]

Thanks, pogo2 and CSA 357.

 

[jjohnson]

44 Special

Are you really sure you want a .357? I've had them for many years, but I'd rather carry a 5-shot .44 Special with 3 inches of tube than anything smaller.
You're going to give up your magnum velocities with a snubnose. I'm not losing as much with a 3" .44 - and I have the larger bullet (usually 210 grains of HP). I'm not trying to talk you out of the .357, mind you, just wasn't sure if you'd thought your way through the alternatives.

I mean, when you think of it, the .357 is nothing more than a hot .38, and coming out of a short tube, there isn't a lot of difference between .38+p and .357 ammo. On the other hand, a .44 is a bigger slug and is pretty impressive on the receiving end. Elmer Keith (rest his soul) said so.

 

[ironvic]

My carry gun is the S&W 686+ with a 2 1/2" barrel. It's accurate enough for my purposes and reliable as well. I used to carry a J-frame Smith in .38 Spec. +P, but the .357 is far more powerful and the bullet's terminal smack makes me feel well protected.

In the past I owned a Model-66 in the same barrel length. I actually liked carrying it better than the heavier 686+, but that old 66 was traded for a 1911. For the money, you can't go wrong with a K or L frame Smith & Wesson in the 2 1/2" barrel variants. Unless, of course, you want deep pocket concealability--then, make mine a J!

 

[Oro]

You're going to give up your magnum velocities with a snubnose.

Politely, you will not do any such thing. You WILL give up some velocity vs. a 4" or 6" gun, but not very much. Again, you can reference the hard data cited in post #11 above if you can't recreate the data with your own chrono and guns.

I also have a 3" .44. And sometimes I like carrying it. But a model 66 is still more concealable than an L frame, and I have NEVER met someone who felt under-gunned with six rounds of .357.

there isn't a lot of difference between .38+p and .357 ammo.

REAL .357 magnum rounds are not similar to .38 special in power. It is possible to buy downloaded rounds in that range, but it's also possible to buy or reload proper .357 rounds that are in a completely different league than .38 and .38+p.

 

[medic_guns]

I am leaning toward a 19 or 66 2.5 inch. BUG can be a jframe 342pd.

Ric

 

[hoptob]

Ric,

66 is a great CCW gun but it is not as easy to conceal as 60 or 640. Depending on you garmet it may or may not be a problem. I'd suggest you take a look at 640 as another CCW option. It takes more practice and it does not look nearly as good as 66, but it is a very powerful and concealable gun.

Mike