Missouri's new law re 2A

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Actually one of the biggest parts to our SAPA is that local and state law enforcement will no longer be able to help the feds investigate firearm crimes or make arrests or searches. And if any local or state agency helps the feds, that agency will get fined up to $50,000 per instance. This has been a very long ongoing fight to get this passed. We have been trying to pass this since 2013 and it is way overdo.
 
Firearms / explosives charges are often enhancements or ancillaries to other crimes. Are you saying that Missouri law enforcement will not investigate murders, arsons, or acts of terrorism? Those are the kinds of things for which ATF assistance is often requested.
 
So if the Federal agents are taking fire as they attempt to enforce the Federal law, local LEOs will not come to the aid of their brother and sister officers?

Now you can argue that when shooting starts there is a crime so the locals can help?
 
So if the Federal agents are taking fire as they attempt to enforce the Federal law, local LEOs will not come to the aid of their brother and sister officers?

Now you can argue that when shooting starts there is a crime so the locals can help?

I won't claim to be an expert on MO law, but I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that engaging in a gunfight violates state law. The bill (as per the text linked above, and a few articles I've seen), explicitly says that specific FEDERAL laws shall not be enforced by MO officials. If you violate a MO law then MO officials can act against you without triggering this act.

So, again not an expert, but it looks like if you (an otherwise law-abiding citizen) tried to transfer an NFA item without paying the $200 fee to the US Gov, and the ATF came to look for you, MO officials would not help them in any way per 1.420(1). In fact under 1.440 it would seem they're supposed to help YOU. But if you open fire then you're no longer a "law-abiding citizen", which you have to be for 1.420(1) to apply.

1.440 is thus the actual kicker here. Nothing in 1.420 prevents the ATF, FBI, etc. from going about their normal business, they'll just have to do some extra work they could normally get local help with. 1.440 however does potentially pit the locals against the Feds - no idea how that will play out.
 
And the SAPA law also protects against the feds trying to come in and confiscate firearms such as during a natural disaster or any gun control laws passed at the federal level that include confiscation. Like I said we have been trying to get this passed since 2013 and finally have it. What led to this initially was teh feds taking legal firearms from legal owners during times of natural disasters. And then the whole Ferguson deal blew up in 2014. I'm all for this law. And pretty much all of the local police officers and sheriff deputies that I have talked to all support this law. The only law enforcement officers to fight this were politically appointed police chiefs and elected sheriffs. The rank and file are behind SAPA and will honor their oaths to protect our rights.
 
And the SAPA law also protects against the feds trying to come in and confiscate firearms such as during a natural disaster or any gun control laws passed at the federal level that include confiscation.

Question: How does it do that? It would seem to prevent local cooperation but if Federal forces (granted an unlikely scenario) came for the guns, how does this law prevent such physical Federal action?
 
The MO law raises interesting questions. Federal law always preempts state law when a conflict exists. I know of no federal law that requires a state to cooperate with federal law enforcement. If I am correct, and my research leads me to believe I am, then the federal government cannot prevent a state from not cooperating with federal law enforcement. However, the federal government would have recourse in that it could reduce or deny federal financial assistance to law enforcement agencies of states that do refuse assistance. All that said, I think the sanctuary laws are simply political promotion. If the The federal government want to take an enforcement action because of a federal offense a lack of cooperation a state is not going to stop enforcement by the feds. The recent proof of that was the enforcement of immigration laws in sanctuary states. CA opposed the federal law. ICE continued to conduct enforcement withou any CA assistance.
 
That $50,000 dollar hit to local department bank accounts will offset some in not most any federal money they get. And yes SAPA is symbolic, but it does have some teeth to it. Like I said, it is more to protect Missouri residents from illegal confiscations on otherwise legal firearms.
 
I agree, I cannot see physical resistance over gun laws by state level actors. Might a small local department or members of such go 'rogue' so to speak. Perhaps. They would not be supported.

The closest we have come to this, is the armed resistance of some citizens and local authorities to the Fugitive Slave Laws and slave catchers. I doubt a Federal gun law would have the same moral outrage. We certainly didn't see it in the past Federal bans or now state bans (and in some states there are certainly committed pro gun folks).

I also agree, and have said, that the utility of such pronouncements and laws are to demonstrated the electoral consequences of bans and perhaps give support to judicial actions. One might equally ask if some Federal future actor (a Jeff Sessions clone) might want to take action against local marijuana laws, would you expect actual physical resistance. NYS is legalizing marijuana. My area has plans for a giant farm, processing plant in old steel mill land - and we need the economy boast. I don't expect the NYS troopers, National Guard, Buffalo police to start an armed confrontation with a future Jeff Sessions. Cuomo on a tank! That would be run to see.

The antigun politicians need to see that they can lose swing districts over gun bans on the Federal level. With Congressional margins being so small, every district counts in the House.

Like I said, it is more to protect Missouri residents from illegal confiscations on otherwise legal firearms.

Again how, a Federal confiscation is legal and trumps state law. Beside a howl of outrage, how does it protect?
The AFTE shows up at your house. Give me your brace and bump stock. What's the state's play?
 
Again how, a Federal confiscation is legal and trumps state law. Beside a howl of outrage, how does it protect?
The AFTE shows up at your house. Give me your brace and bump stock. What's the state's play?

I don't know how that would play out, I''m not a lawyer. The SPA again protects us from gun confiscations during natural disasters too. And we have seen too many times in the past that has happened. And we already have laws in Missouri preventing the seizure of guns during natural disasters. SAPA helps enforce them.

I also feel that the more states that pass laws as the Missouri SAPA law, it will make the federal government take notice. Especially the Representatives and Senators that have forgotten that they are suppose to represent the people.
 
Ok, there is no clarity in your view as to whether the law stops Federal actions. From a legal standpoint it is clear that it does not.
 
Ok, there is no clarity in your view as to whether the law stops Federal actions. From a legal standpoint it is clear that it does not.

Whether SAPA is purely symbolic or if it actually has teeth is yet to be seen. Either way I am glad that it finally passed after 8 years of trying. And yes I do have clarity on my view of federal laws. And I also know that there will issues and questions with this law. It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
I think the teeth aspect is clear from precedent discussed many times on how Federal law and state law interact. I'm glad it passed to make the statement.

TX passed a suppressor law. Let's see if they actually start making them in state with totally local resources and selling them locally. Otherwise it's posturing. The marijuana folks are doing that. Have a store with edibles and suppressors - but TX would have to change the marijuana laws.

The GOP would go far (to be political) if it came out for ditching the Federal marijuana laws except trafficking to kids. Just as the Democrats would go far to ditch the gun laws push. I explained that to my reps so expect this to happen soon :rofl:
 
What has been reported on the local news about this new law is supposed to be used to determine if state level authorities consider a federal action to violate the Constitutional protections of the Second Amendment. If the state feels they do, then the local departments are prohibited from "assisting" in those unconstitutional actions.
 
What's the bright line on 'assisting'? Not being part of a raid? If there was a big raid, not helping in pre-raid traffic control so that Gramps can drive into it? Not staging medical resources if a big raid was planned?

So the Feds find a house that is the factory to produce home grown SMGs. Such exist. Now MO feels the the NFA rules are unconstitutional. The Feds say that the folks producing the SMGs are dangerous and might fight - a potential risk to the area. They say they need help for traffic and medical resources. Does the state and local folks say they will not help?

Sorry to push this but I'm a detail oriented person as compared to PR statements.
 
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wir...souri-governor-void-federal-gun-laws-78327570

The Justice Department is warning Missouri officials that the state can’t ignore federal law, after the governor signed a bill last week that bans police from enforcing federal gun rules
Acting Assistant Attorney General Brian Boynton said the law threatens to disrupt the working relationship between federal and local authorities, they said in the letter, noting that Missouri receives federal grants and technical assistance.

Asks for clarification as I mentioned on how it would actually work. There is a difference between not enforcing Federal gun laws and not cooperating in some fashion.
 
The Feds will always have the last word because they will threaten to withhold funds for this or that. Maybe if states said fine and we won't be sending you any tax revenue either, a formal showdown might set things right (or it might start Civil War II)
 
Police Chief Resigns Over Gun Law He Says Will Help Anti-Police Activists 'Torment Law Enforcement' (msn.com)

"Dupuis said his reason for leaving the police force after more than three decades in service was due to Missouri Governor Mike Parson's recent signing of H.B. 85. The "Second Amendment Preservation Act" seeks to establish more protections for gun laws. But Dupuis said this legislation will backfire and allow anti-firearm and anti-police demonstrators to harass officers."

Read through the article but I can't see that he has a case - for example immunity is only denied where officers are violating something protected by 1.420... which keeps talking about law-abiding citizens very explicitly.

Of course not being persuaded by an article shouldn't be surprising since it came from MSN.
 
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