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Conceal carry law raises questions for construction industry
By Brian Johnson/F&C Staff Writer
June 4, 2003
To post or not to post? That's what many business owners are asking themselves in response to Minnesota's new conceal and carry gun law. But what effect will the law have on the construction industry and property under development?
Some experts say the law will have little impact on contractors and construction sites, but others say there are gray areas in the law that raise more questions than answers for those who do business in unfinished work zones.
The law, which took effect May 28, makes it easier for qualified applicants to obtain a permit to carry a gun, but it also allows private establishments to prohibit guns by posting a sign and individually notifying people of the ban.
Mark Geier, a lawyer with the firm of Mackall, Crounse & Moore in Minneapolis, said there are potential problems with the new law as it pertains to the construction industry because the statute doesn't clearly specify how to handle posting and individual notice requirements at a construction site.
Geier, who practices in real estate, business and employment law, said the law does make it clear that a permit owner can bring firearms onto the premises unless the carrier receives a "reasonable request" not to do so. The reasonable request includes both a posted notice and individual notice.
The latter requirement is problematic for owners who wish to ban guns, he said.
"You've got trucks coming and going, you're going to have semis dropping off large pieces of equipment, you're going to have the concrete trucks coming and going," he said. "And it isn't practical to notify everybody that you've got a ban in place and giving them this individual notice."
Geier said the provision that allows employees to possess guns in parking lots is another gray area for the construction industry, because construction workers sometimes park their vehicles right on the work site if the site is open.
As an alternative to posting and giving individual notice, Geier said general contractors and owners should consider adding no-firearms-allowed provisions to their contracts if they want the construction site to be gun-free.
"That way they know that when people are coming on their site ... they're not supposed to have any weapons," Geier said. "They could have the same rules in place, of course, for their own employees as well."
David Gross, a firearms law expert and a supporter of the new law, said the "posting" requirement applies to stores, restaurants and other "places of public accommodation." The requirement is a non-issue at undeveloped construction sites, he said, because those sites are already off-limits to the public.
"This law doesn't change anything about property under development," said Gross, who joined Hamline law professor Joe Olson in founding Minnesota Conceal Carry Reform Now. "... If your body can't be here lawfully, then I don't have to worry about whether your body has a gun on it or not."
Contractors and other employers are still authorized to prohibit their employees from bringing guns onto the site, although the new law states that they can't stop an employee from having a firearm in the parking lot, Gross said.
"The contractor controls his or her employees, the subcontractors control his or her employees," Gross said. "And the owner controls all of them. There's a decision tree, and it all flows from the owner."
Under the new law, applicants for a permit must be at least 21 and a United States citizen or permanent resident. They also must complete gun safety training and pass a criminal and mental health background check.
Minnesota's previous handgun policy, which dated back to 1975, gave broad discretion to police chiefs, sheriffs and other authorities responsible for issuing permits. It also required applicants to demonstrate "an occupation or personal safety hazard" that required a permit, according to the nonpartisan Research Department of the House of Representatives.
The new law entitles permit holders to possess a gun in private places of business. However, private establishments can prohibit firearms by posting signs stating that no guns are allowed and by "personally informing" patrons of the posted request.
Among other requirements, signs must be at least 187 square inches in area, with black Arial typeface at least 1.5 inches high. Lettering must contrast with the sign's background, and signs must be placed within four feet of each entrance.
Private property that is not a private residence, building or parking area appears to fall under the general trespass statute, according to the House Research department. In that case, oral notice alone would be sufficient to ban guns.
John Caile, a spokesman for Minnesota Conceal Carry Reform Now, said the new statute is more stringent than people may realize. Among other things, it raises the minimum age for carrying a permit from 18 to 21, expands background checks and requires more training.
"We put so many restrictions on the permits, compared to what they were before," Caile said. "What we did change was the way they are issued. Previously, there wasn't any standard for issuing. It was whatever the sheriff felt like applying."
Critics of the law, including State Sen. Mee Moua, say it will put more guns on Minnesota's streets, and that the number permits will likely increase from 12,000 to 90,000.
"We already live in a violent world, and the last thing we need to do is encourage more of it," Moua wrote, in a letter posted on her Web site. "Violence does not need to beget more violence. More guns do not lead to safer communities."
http://www.finance-commerce.com/recent_articles/030604a.htm
By Brian Johnson/F&C Staff Writer
June 4, 2003
To post or not to post? That's what many business owners are asking themselves in response to Minnesota's new conceal and carry gun law. But what effect will the law have on the construction industry and property under development?
Some experts say the law will have little impact on contractors and construction sites, but others say there are gray areas in the law that raise more questions than answers for those who do business in unfinished work zones.
The law, which took effect May 28, makes it easier for qualified applicants to obtain a permit to carry a gun, but it also allows private establishments to prohibit guns by posting a sign and individually notifying people of the ban.
Mark Geier, a lawyer with the firm of Mackall, Crounse & Moore in Minneapolis, said there are potential problems with the new law as it pertains to the construction industry because the statute doesn't clearly specify how to handle posting and individual notice requirements at a construction site.
Geier, who practices in real estate, business and employment law, said the law does make it clear that a permit owner can bring firearms onto the premises unless the carrier receives a "reasonable request" not to do so. The reasonable request includes both a posted notice and individual notice.
The latter requirement is problematic for owners who wish to ban guns, he said.
"You've got trucks coming and going, you're going to have semis dropping off large pieces of equipment, you're going to have the concrete trucks coming and going," he said. "And it isn't practical to notify everybody that you've got a ban in place and giving them this individual notice."
Geier said the provision that allows employees to possess guns in parking lots is another gray area for the construction industry, because construction workers sometimes park their vehicles right on the work site if the site is open.
As an alternative to posting and giving individual notice, Geier said general contractors and owners should consider adding no-firearms-allowed provisions to their contracts if they want the construction site to be gun-free.
"That way they know that when people are coming on their site ... they're not supposed to have any weapons," Geier said. "They could have the same rules in place, of course, for their own employees as well."
David Gross, a firearms law expert and a supporter of the new law, said the "posting" requirement applies to stores, restaurants and other "places of public accommodation." The requirement is a non-issue at undeveloped construction sites, he said, because those sites are already off-limits to the public.
"This law doesn't change anything about property under development," said Gross, who joined Hamline law professor Joe Olson in founding Minnesota Conceal Carry Reform Now. "... If your body can't be here lawfully, then I don't have to worry about whether your body has a gun on it or not."
Contractors and other employers are still authorized to prohibit their employees from bringing guns onto the site, although the new law states that they can't stop an employee from having a firearm in the parking lot, Gross said.
"The contractor controls his or her employees, the subcontractors control his or her employees," Gross said. "And the owner controls all of them. There's a decision tree, and it all flows from the owner."
Under the new law, applicants for a permit must be at least 21 and a United States citizen or permanent resident. They also must complete gun safety training and pass a criminal and mental health background check.
Minnesota's previous handgun policy, which dated back to 1975, gave broad discretion to police chiefs, sheriffs and other authorities responsible for issuing permits. It also required applicants to demonstrate "an occupation or personal safety hazard" that required a permit, according to the nonpartisan Research Department of the House of Representatives.
The new law entitles permit holders to possess a gun in private places of business. However, private establishments can prohibit firearms by posting signs stating that no guns are allowed and by "personally informing" patrons of the posted request.
Among other requirements, signs must be at least 187 square inches in area, with black Arial typeface at least 1.5 inches high. Lettering must contrast with the sign's background, and signs must be placed within four feet of each entrance.
Private property that is not a private residence, building or parking area appears to fall under the general trespass statute, according to the House Research department. In that case, oral notice alone would be sufficient to ban guns.
John Caile, a spokesman for Minnesota Conceal Carry Reform Now, said the new statute is more stringent than people may realize. Among other things, it raises the minimum age for carrying a permit from 18 to 21, expands background checks and requires more training.
"We put so many restrictions on the permits, compared to what they were before," Caile said. "What we did change was the way they are issued. Previously, there wasn't any standard for issuing. It was whatever the sheriff felt like applying."
Critics of the law, including State Sen. Mee Moua, say it will put more guns on Minnesota's streets, and that the number permits will likely increase from 12,000 to 90,000.
"We already live in a violent world, and the last thing we need to do is encourage more of it," Moua wrote, in a letter posted on her Web site. "Violence does not need to beget more violence. More guns do not lead to safer communities."
http://www.finance-commerce.com/recent_articles/030604a.htm
