MO: Temporary anti-CCW injunction and comments

Status
Not open for further replies.

John Ross

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
534
Location
St. Louis
From my website www.john-ross.net:

10/10 UPDATE: An anti-carry group filed a motion yesterday for a temporary injunction to hold up the implementation of Missouri's License-To-Carry law scheduled to take effect tomorrow. Their grounds were several (throw a bunch of mud and see what sticks.) Today at 4:00 PM St. Louis City judge Steve Ohmer dismissed all claims except the one stating that the carry law might be in contradiction to Missouri's Constitution. He granted the temporary injunction to stop the law from taking effect tomorrow, and set a date for arguments of October 20.

WHAT THIS MEANS: The relevant section of Missouri's state Constitution reads: "that the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property...shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."

Every legal scholar I've talked to says that "shall not justify" means that the legislature has the right to limit or prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons--which it always has. You cannot claim your "right to keep and bear arms" as an affirmative defense against the charge of carrying a concealed weapon in violation of the law. What the lawsuit-bringers claim, however, is that "shall not justify" means "shall not permit under any circumstances."

At issue is whether the legislature has the right, under our Constitution, to enact any statute which allows even one person to legally carry a concealed weapon. Keep in mind that for many years there have been statutes on the books which permitted some people to legally carry concealed weapons in Missouri: Police, judges, corporate security advisors, certain government agents, process servers, and anyone "engaged in a peaceable journey throughout the state."

IF the eventual ruling (probably from Missouri's Supreme Court) is that Missouri's Constitution prohibits the legislature from passing any License-To-Carry law, then it will also mean that the legislature violated the Constitution when it enacted statutes to allow police officer, judges, etc. to carry concealed. This seems ludicrous to me.* I have to believe that this will get sorted out and citizens will soon be allowed to apply to become licensed to carry.

Thus, I am still offering regular training classes and very few students of mine have cancelled.

John Ross

*Keep in mind that Missouri is the only state north of the Mason-Dixon line where slavery was ever permitted by law. Missouri was also home to Dred Scott and the Supreme Court’s infamous Dred Scott vs. Sanford decision of 1857, which ruled that free blacks were not citizens. After the Civil War, the white ruling classes in the State Legislatures in Missouri and the other former slave states had to be creative to prevent now-free blacks from exercising their rights.

The legislators passed laws that said blacks had to pass literacy tests and pay poll taxes before they could vote. Guns were trickier. Some Southern states enacted laws banning the ownership of all guns not made by Colt or Winchester, as these were quality arms whose price was sufficiently high that only white people could afford them. Missouri, with less subtlety, passed a law in 1874 that prohibited the carrying of any weapon for the purposes of self-protection, including (and I am not making this up), a slingshot. In 1875 came the Constitutional wording listed above. Over a century ago, it was a simple matter to enforce this law only on blacks, as the police and sheriffs in Missouri were all white.

This was exactly what happened, just as the legislators had intended. With blacks disarmed, the Klan had free rein. Lynchings were common here in Missouri long after the Civil War. The prohibition on carrying a weapon for protection was selectively enforced on blacks alone for a full 90 years, until the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. No white was ever arrested if carrying a weapon for protection was his only crime. Naturally, when an armed robber was caught, a concealed weapon violation would be added to the list of charges. A team of legal researchers in 1992 could not find a case prior to 1964 where a white man in Missouri was arrested and convicted solely on a concealed weapons charge.
 
John,

Just curious what the time frame on the Missouri Supreme Court hearing this is?

Also how does this injuction impact out of state permit holders coming into and traveling through Missouri?

Thanks for any light you may shed on this.

Semper Fi
 
John, you have my support. How can I assist?

p.s. you were missed at knob creek. met your friend at A1. Very professional & very nice.
 
My Sacred Lair is not presently in the Show-Me state, though I often travel to the "righteous land of the Ozarks" on business occations. My present Sacred Lair is in the land of the Hoosiers. I've a "License to Carry Handgun" permission slip from Dos Policia. How does the injunction affect reciprosity concerns? Would I be in violation of MO law if I was packing in MO?
 
The injunction temporily blocks/delays the ENTIRE LTC Bill from going into effect. This would INCLUDE recognition of CCW licenses issued by other states. Plaintiffs suit in effect says ALL CCW is prohibited by the Missouri Constitution. That won't stand; but, as long as the injunction is in place, anyone relying on a CCW permit from out of State is asking for BIG trouble. :cuss:

There is an exception, to the prohibition against Concealed Carrying of Weapons, in the previous statute (which remains in effect pending the outcome of the current litigation) for those travelling peaceably through or within the state; but, the definition of travelling is uncertain. This would not be a good time to test it. In addition to possible felony charges in Missouri, you could put your out of state permit at risk in the issueing state. :banghead: :fire:
 
Whether this affects the whole state is uncertain. I know of no other similar case where a city judge blocked a law statewide. I believe any sheriff outside the city might well start issuing carry enddorsements, but it may be that they're all going to hold off.

Carrying with another state's permit might well be judged to be legal, but getting that judgment would probably be expensive. In any event, I believe this will get sorted out in short order.

Vasilia, I got delayed by the court hearing Friday but I made it to KCR about 3:30 Saturday afternoon, signed some books, showed off my de-lugged 500 S&W, and caught up with friends. Left about 10 am Sunday.

JR

www.john-ross.net

P.S. Heard from 3 sources that the antis had to put up their houses as collateral to make the $250,000 bond. We'll probably get 'em when damages are awarded. There's a long list of people who have suffered monetarily from the injunction (shooting ranges, trainers, etc.)
 
John,

Please correct me if I am wrong; but, didn't the Municipal Court Systems in Kansas City and St. Louis become part of the State Circuit Court System a number of years ago?

IIRC seems like this was a ballot issue which was voted on and passed 15-20 or more years ago.

If this was simply a Municipal Court, they would only have jurisdiction over municipal matters; but, I don't believe that is the case. :(
 
Has anyone seen a location where I could read the actual pleadings going back and forth in this case? Would like to see the text of the injunction entered last week by Ohmer.
 
I wish you all that you need to win this one. Typical tactic by the opposition to use the courts to get what they can't win with the legislature. So when is the next Ross In Range?

:p

Scott
 
Found a copy of the TRO entered 10/10 by Ohmer: Unbelievable!
____________________________________________________________

Brooks, et al. v. State et al., Case No. 034-02425, Division 2, October 10, 2003


Judgement

Court takes up plaintiffs' motion for preliminary injunction. Court finds a likelihood of success on the merits only on the ground of Article I, Section 23 of the Missouri Constitution, and grants the plaintiffs' motion only on that ground. Preliminary injunction to issue upon Injunction bond to be posted by plaintiffs in the amount of $250,000 - thereby enjoining the enforcement of [sections] 50.535, 571.030 and 571.094 (House Bills No. 349, 120, 136 and 328, 92nd General Assembly, commonly known as the conceal and carry law until further Court order.

So Ordered.

Steven R. Ohmer
 
Kevin Jamison was to debate with Richard Miller and/or Alvin Brooks this morning on the radio. Neither Miller or Brooks showed up.
 
Question for John Ross

John, since your reading this thread, can you answer a couple of questions about Illinois?

1) Do you know of any organized plan to bring right-to-carry laws to Illinois?

2) Have you been asked to help pass a right-to-carry laws in Illinois?

I don't see anything coming out of I$RA to help us out.

The NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde supplied a draft CCW law to a couple of legislators, but the bill is dead in the rules committee.

Although the CCRA is active in supporting a pro-carry message, but they haven't put forth any legislation.
 
As for the Illinois question:

It is my opinion that Illinois will be the last CCW ban state. Thank Dickey Daley for that. Wisconsin will go shall issue this year, and Kansas will next year. Nebraska will in 2005 I think. Ohio and Illinois will be the last, probably 2007 for Ohio, and who knows for Illinois.
 
Lonnie,

I think you're right about Illinois being last and I hope you're right about Kansas being next year.

Kansas passed it about 5-6 years ago only to have it vetoed by a 'Moderate' :barf: Republican Governor who then failed to support, as his successor in the general election, a conservative republican nominee with the result that Kansas now has a Democratic Governor. :banghead:

At this point, it looks like the Kansas Legislature will likely put a Bill on her desk next year. Hopefully, Missouri's success will increase the pressure on her to do something other than veto it. :D
 
I lived in Chicago many years ago, but once they came up with their "Firearm Owner's ID" card nonsense I realized I likely would never go back - even to visit.

My brother still lives there and is forever trying to get me to head back up to the "Windy City" for a few days. He has lived in Dalyville so long and has been so thoroughly brainwashed by the anti-RKBA tripe that I don't even bother to tell him the real reason why I won't go back up there.
 
I don't even bother to tell him the real reason why I won't go back up there.
Perhaps you should! Maybe you can bring him around to our side. I know, it takes time, hard work, and patience. Must use heavy doses of Truth and a soft sell when opportunity presents itself. I have two brothers living in a major city in Missouri. One has seen the truth and the other is starting to come around. They BOTH now favor CCW. :)

That is how we will win this fight. One mind at a time! :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top