Model 60 Stainless +p rated?

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Dr.Rob

Dr.Rob

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I have access to a model 60 S&W in stainless steel. R174xxx (1977 I think) Can I shoot +p out of this for a comparison shoot?

I want to shoot this side by side with a few other snubs.
 
I think all steel frame model marked guns can handle .38 Special P+ without an issue. That and the general consensus that most +P ammo made today is close to the regular .38 Special ammo produced 40 years ago.

I wouldn't be afraid to shoot +P ammo in my .38 Special model 60... You might accelerate the wear a smidgen, but it's not a gun I'll ever shoot enough to make a difference.
 
I'm talking a box of +p at most. It's not my revolver and I don't want to break it.
 
You won't break it. I have a pre Plus P Model 60 as you describe. It was made before the Plus P ammo was so designated.
I have hand loaded some hurtful loads without issue.
 
My M60 #R14800X paper work includes this info for S&W branded ammo. Nothing about +P ammo. 20190104_195416.jpg

See bottom right for ammo.

SAAMI SHOWs +P 3,000 PSI higher then 38 special.
 
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Dr.Rob

I would say you could go ahead and shoot +P ammo out of it but I wouldn't do it on a steady basis. On occasion I run some fairly hot loads through my all stainless steel Model 649 and it's held up very well, without any signs of excessive wear or tear on the gun itself. I would be somewhat less likely to shoot that much hot ammo with my aluminum alloy framed Model 638.

poKELn4.jpg

TyNf0Dv.jpg
 
I've got a Model 60 that is older than yours. It is one of my carry guns and I've shot probably 200-300 rounds of +P factory and reloads. Not a problem and is still tight as a tick. For normal shooting and practice, I shoot standard .38 loads and normally finish up running one cylinder of +P through it. Shooting one box in the gun won't hurt it and you are in no danger of breaking it. However I would think a steady diet of +p would eventually loosen the gun up prematurely.
 
reddog81 said:
When was that gun made? The ballistics of the ammo in that chart is way beyond +P velocities you’ll see today.
Click to expand...
Let's just say that in the days before everybody had a chrono that ammo manufacturers fudged on their velocity figures. Either they did things like shoot it out of 8", or extrapolated what they thought it should be, or just flat out lied.
 
See post #21 http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/399656-p-ammo-model-36-a.html

So, anyone have a 1993 manual?? :uhoh:



Keep in mind this is from a Smith & Wesson owner's manual printed in 1993: "Revolvers in which .38 Special +P ammunition can be used: • J frames - Models 60-4 (full underlug barrel only), 60-7, 60-8, 640, 649-2 • K frames - Models 10, 13, 14, 15, 19, 64, 65, 66, 67 • L frames - Models 581, 586, 681, 686 • N frames - Models 27, 28, 627 Here is S&W's warning about +P ammunition - Quote: "Plus P" (+P) ammunition generates pressures significantly in excess of the pressures associated with standard .38 Special ammunition. Such Pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into many revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS. "Plus P" (+P) ammunition should not be used in medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a Model Number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame (i.e. the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position). The "Plus-P-Plus" (+P+) marking on ammunition merely designates that it exceed established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated. "Plus-P-Plus" (+P+) ammunition is not recommended for use in Smith & Wesson firearms."
Click to expand...
 
S&W 2014 manual.

“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pres- sures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS. This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position).
Click to expand...
 
I am going to say, don't shoot +P ammunition in your pistol. The factory did not recommend it, the pistol is not built for it, sure other people do that to their std pressure 38 Specials, but, that's their gun. Don't shoot +P in a buddy's gun.
 
Dr.Rob said:
I have access to a model 60 S&W in stainless steel. R174xxx (1977 I think) Can I shoot +p out of this for a comparison shoot?

I want to shoot this side by side with a few other snubs.
Click to expand...


I have an R122xxx Model 60 I bought new (1975?). It went thru 30 years of quarterly qualifications (240 rds of +P a year) plus I don't know how many rounds of practice ammo. So that's at least 7000 rounds of +P and with the practice ammo (mix of +P and std velocity) I'm sure I have at least 20,000 rds thru this gun at least half of them +P.

Zero problems. Nothing has ever broken. I've kind of retired it now but when I do shoot it its with std velocity or wadcutter.
 
I have an S&W 60-1 made in an estimated 1975. I know that there is information out there that S&W said that 38 Special +P was safe to shoot in the gun and that folks have shot lots of +P ammunition in their Model 60's. I cannot say that I have seen any "official" documentation to that effect. That does not mean it does not exist, I just have not seen it.

I will not shoot 38 Special +P ammunition in my 38 Special Model 60-1.

In my opinion, with early to mid life Model 60's if the barrel is not marked 38 Special +P, I'd not shoot +P ammunition in it.

J-frames are not that expensive and if I wanted to shoot higher pressure loads in one for what ever reason, I'd get one rated for the pressure ammunition that I wanted to shoot.

But, if you feel comfortable with the information you have found/learned on the safety of shooting +P ammunition in your Model 60, that is your decision.

Just my opinion, and that with $5 will get you a designer cup of coffee.
 
In my 1961 version of Elmer Keith's "Six-guns" he wrote that the chief's special and the detective's special would both handle hi velocity loads. I doubt he meant the .38-44 loads of the time before the .357 and most likely talked about loads that were precursors to todays "plus p" loads. If it were my model 60 I would shoot plus p out of it with no back thought at all. It's not like your gonna run .38-44 loads through it it'll be fine.
 
Iggy said:
I talked to S&W several years ago. Tech said any Model marked gun will handle +P ammo without problem.
Click to expand...

Will they warrant it? And how would a buddy feel if the S&W you borrowed, broke, even though someone said it was supposed to be good for +P?
 
158@1050 is pretty hot for a 38, they might not have called it +p but that looks like the FBI/Treasury/Chicago load I mentioned in another thread.
 
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