Modern cartridges?????

[rauchman]

Greetings,

I'm more of a handgun guy but by the end of the summer, I hope to have a Savage or some kind of bolt, in, very probably, a .308. At the rifle range awhile back, a gentleman let me try his Remington pump action 30-06 (sorry, forget the model #). It was very light with scope and the thing kicked like a mule. Ok, maybe it's me and I'm a serious wimp or something, but are people actually buying rifles chambered in the newer rounds that are coming out? The WSSM's, RSAUM's, etc. Wow, I couldn't imagine shooting with these cartridges. Especially when I see these things coming in rifles that are very light. At what point is enough enough and at what point is it overkill? I understand that a 7mm Rem Mag produces roughly the same recoil energy as a 30-06. Also, a 30-06 is considered the upper limit of what most folks can handle. Again, I'm not an expert, but this is what I have read. If I'm wrong please correct me. I couldn't imagine target shooting or being on a hunt with one of the newer rounds and expect to beat myself up when shooting these rounds. I guess my question here is, what would one do with one of these things and what would you hunt that you couldn't hunt with a 308/ 30-06/ 7mm Rem Mag?

 

[ojibweindian]

Beats me. I'll stick with the .30-06 and 8x57 because I really don't have a need for anything larger at this time, and those two cartridges are about all I can reasonably tolerate to shoot during extended range sessions.

 

[treeprof]

No question some of the magnum cartridges kick bad. But, the new shortmags are designed to maximize performance and efficiency from a relatively small (short, fat) case, and get roughly the same performance as their bigger cased brothers with less powder, and hence recoil. Also, gun fit makes a big diff in perceived recoil, and the Remington pump and semiauto rifles like you shot fit me VERY poorly; it's quite possible that fit may have contributed to your discomfort rather than "wimpiness". I don't shoot much midbore and larger stuff anymore due to my bad shoulder, but I have a custom-built .30-06 and because it fits me (w/a generour recoil pad) it is not bad at all for 20 shots or so. I hunted with a Win Model 70 in 7 mm mag as a kid, and it was pretty manageable. But again, the gun fit me, at least at that time.

Re uses for magnums, it's true that there's not much you couldn't do in N. America w/just a .30-06. Some folks think they need a magnum (I can't believe all of the people shooting dinky deer around here w/magnum rifles) and some actually hunt the big stuff. My dad hunts a lot w/a .375 H&H mag (mostly bear, sometimes moose), and he's getting to the point now at 60 yrs. old that he dislikes shooting it very much. He mostly shoots a .300 Win mag for everything else - deer, moose, elk, caribou, sheep, black bear, etc. - and adjusts bullet wt and powder charge in his handloads appropriately. Recoil in his .300 mag rifles has never seemed to bother him, but the stocks are made for him and too short for me to shoot comfortably.

 

[rust collector]

New & Improved is a pretty standard marketing technique that has worked for a lot of years. Unfortunately, I suspect I'm not the only one who doesn't get a center shot or knock a deer off its feet every time. Could it be me, or do I just need a shorter/fatter/hotter flamethrower I just read about in a gun magazine...

Once you start having a blast with military surplus rifles made 98 years ago, you start to realize that there is no substitute for practice and good technique. It's a bit like my photo sessions. I can buy a camera with a 10x zoom for megabucks or waddle up to my subject with my little old pocket camera and get the shot. Getting there is half the fun.

I guess I'm a wimp for not wanting to get beaten about the head and shoulders everytime I touch a round off, so I paid the same money for my Tikka T3 in .308 that I would have paid for a .300WSM. I'll benefit from a lot of better shooters' experience in loading and using a round that's been around.

 

[Jim K]

"It's new! It's new! I gotta have it."

Jim

 

[Art Eatman]

rauchman, one of the reasons I've advocated getting into the reloading game is that nowhere is it written that all loads for all cartridges should be "The Max".

I load hot for hunting, since that's not all that many shots in a year. I load down for "mid-range" or light recoil for general practice or plinking for the fun of it. My favorite song is NOT "The Masochism Tango".

$0.02,

Art

 

[Sunray]

"...a 30-06 is considered the upper limit of what most folks can handle..." Nonsense. Who told you that? Try an as issued .303 Lee-Enfield. The stock design and its weight pounds me into next week. A .30-06 I can shoot all day with no problem. Then try a .45-70 out of a Marlin. Or a 12 gauge slug. No problem. Again, the stock design absorbs some of the felt recoil.
The excessive felt recoil on that Remington was caused mostly by its weight, not just the cartridge. Any light weight bolt action or single shot rifle will feel like you've been stomped.
If you're sensitive to recoil, try a 6.5 x 55 or a plain old 7mm Mauser. Lots of punch for everything from small deer to big moose, but not much felt recoil. Nothing in North America requires a magnum anything to kill. Not even the big bears. A properly placed 6.5 or 7mm Mauser will drop them like a ton of bricks.
The Ultra mags are nothing more than marketing things. And expensive ones at that. The manufacturers must come out with new stuff regularly or they'll have to close down. The so-called short magnums are a natural development of older cartridges in my mind. Same as the .308 was developed as a progression of the .30-06 and the .300 WSM(not really a magnum at all) is a progression of the .308. Newer powders mean less of it is required to get the same velocities as older rounds.
Mind you, there are a lot of people who think a magnum round will compensate for poor shooting. It won't. Shot placement is vital. If a guy's super duper magnum shootznbanger hurts him, he won't shoot it enough to get good enough with it.

 

[theCZ]

It's true these huge magnums are unpleasant to shoot, and I reckon that most owners do not shoot more than 10 shots a year (sighting in, and hunting). If you are at a shooting range in the fall before hunting season starts, watch all the people going to sight in their .650Remington Super Short Action blah blah blah. You'll also see some pretty mighty flinches being developed! I'm an advocate of shooting what you can handle, and for me, that's a .270 if I'm taking more than 5 shots. If I'm shooting at deer or something, then I'd probably use 300win mag as my limit. As far as these WSSSMSMSMSM's go, I have no use for them.