modern cleaners

[Forklift]

Hi all, I've read many of the 'so you want a cap and ball revolver' threads, but i've not gotten a satisfactory answer in regards to why people don't use modern cleaners on a C&B BP pistol. It seems like all the answers revolve around 'cause it cleans better'. But that makes no sense to me (sideways thinker) for a few reasons listed below:

Its modern steel. Probably the same steel in a lot of my other guns, and I clean them with modern solutions.

BP is corrosive, but so is old Russian ammo you buy in bulk for Mausers, Garands, etc., but we use modern solutions to clean them as well.

What is it about BP that makes soap and water better than a great bore cleaner?

 

[Jenrick]

I don't know if modern cleaners are worse personally. I've used Hoppes No. 9 (not the black powder solver, but plain old Hoppes), CLP, Rem Oil, etc on my BP stuff before with no ill effects. It however was about like cleaning a heavily shot AR bolt, lots of patches. Dropping my whole CB revolver (disassembled) into a pot of hot soapy water and just scrubbing it with a tooth brush was actually a little faster. Also rather then running multiple patches down the barrel, I basically just had to run a couple patches down it to dry it and put some oil in it. BP fouling is pretty much completely water soluble, so it just dissolves rather then needing to be heavily scrubbed/solvent'ed off.

-Jenrick

 

[Hawkeye748]

The reason is that oil tends to make BP residue "gummy" which makes it harder to clean off the gun. BP residue is soluble in water and will easily wash away in hot soapy water.

There are other solutions used for cleaning BP that work well also. My personal favorite is the 3 equal parts solution of Murphy's Oil Soap, Alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide. This solution allows a quick field clean up. Follow it up with oil. For full cleaning, I then use Hoppe's No. 9 after returning from the field.

 

[Ratdog68]

... My personal favorite is the 3 equal parts solution of Murphy's Oil Soap, Alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide. This solution allows a quick field clean up. Follow it up with oil. For full cleaning, I then use Hoppe's No. 9 after returning from the field.

Yup... that's a fine mix for cleaning BP residue. Did a shoot with a buddy of mine a couple of weeks ago. Three of us were introducing 13 guys to BP shooting... we lined 'em up and let 'em shoot three and get back in line. Those three rifles had a few rounds put through 'em by the end of the day. We did the cleaning with that mix at his place. Really did a nice job on 'em.

 

[Forklift]

Thanks for the answers. The fact that BP fouling is water soluble is answer enough for me. However, I do like the 3 part recipe! Thanks for everything and I hope to be part of the dark arts soon!

 

[Hawkeye748]

Forklift,

If you decide to get serious about BP, you live in the Deep South Region of the N-SSA. There are shoots monthly where competition is held with CW era arms. Might want to check us out.

www.n-ssa.net

 

[RyanM]

Not sure about cleaners, but petroleum-based oils tend to mix with BP fouling and form a hard, tarry substance that's much harder to clean than fouling on its own. That's why most people recommend beeswax and mutton tallow, or crisco, or bore butter.

 

[mykeal]

The problem with petroleum based oils is not that they mix poorly with the bp combustion byproducts. The problem is that if there are any of the lower distillate petroleum products (such as gun oil, but not mineral oil) present in the combustion chamber when the powder is ignited, those oils will burn. However, the combustion temperature of black powder (including substitute black powders) is too low to completely burn the oils, and this incomplete combustion is what results in a form of tar which is somewhat difficult to remove.

Gun oils are effective as rust preventatives and many modern bore cleaners that contain the lower distillate petroleum products are effective cleaning products for black powder (effective but not particularly efficient). They can be used with good results IF the bore is thoroughly rinsed clean before firing the gun. Alcohol, Windex or even water will do the job.

 

[JNewell]

I once bought a container of B-C Blackpowder Cleaner. It was great stuff, very effective and pleasant to use. But, sadly, it was a waste of money.

 

[alsaqr]

Mike Venturino used to be the BP editor for Shooting Times magazine. Mike uses Windex with vinegar. Windex with vinegar is now called Windex Multi-Task. The stuff works great for cleaning BP guns. Lots of the CAS folks use it. Windex Multi-Task works very well on BP and BP substitutes. You can sometimes see it fizz as the diluted acid eats up the fouling which is a base.

I started using Windex with vinegar about 12 years ago and it works very well for me.

http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen3.html

"After each stage wipe off the front of the cylinder and the hammer, hammer notch, and nipples with a shop towel. If fouling around the hammer is dry and crusty, then use a shop towel wetted with Windex with Vinegar and water. If, using American Pioneer Powder, Pinnacle, or 777, you need bore cleaning between stages, something is wrong.

At the end of the day take the cylinder out. Spray it with Windex with Vinegar. Clean the nipple area with the toothbrush. Personally, I never remove the nipples. Instead I clean the outside of the nipples with the toothbrush, then turn them 180° with a nipple wrench and repeat, then retighten. Don't lube the cylinder. It's stainless. Dry it. Toothbrush fouling off the frame after dousing with Windex/vinegar. Clean and lube the base pin with lubricant of choice. Run a Bore Snake through the bore (Windex on front end, lubricant on back end). Lube with lubricant of choice. Reassemble."

 

[wittzo]

After I wash my gun in the sink with hot water and dishsoap, I used to put a drop of Breakfree on places that are prone to rust on my stainless gun. It's mineral oil based, so it doesn't react. Now I use Ballistol instead because I like it's smell better.

It took me a couple of misfires to force me to use boiling water on my long guns. I was intimidated by taking the stock off my '42 Springfield, but I nutted up and did it and it was no big deal. I was amazed at the gunk that came out of my "clean" rifle that boiling water knocks loose.

I keep reading that 777 is self-lubricating, so I stopped using greasewads in front of my ball and it reduces a lot of the fouling, the 777 makes it's own grease, but I still use greased felt wads behind the bullet with a dry felt wad separating it from the powder.

My stainless gun usually gets a damp swab down the bore and a wipe down with a damp paper towel and then some oil and that's it. If I shot all three cylinders, I clean it properly.

 

[BCRider]

I just tossed a can of Wipe Out BP barrel cleaner that came with my new Colt 1860's. I thought I'd likely use it until I read the instructions that said to spray it into the barrel and then wait 10 minutes and then wipe it out and run a patch of their oil through it. But with hot soapy water it's a 20 second job instead of 10 minutes. So into the trash it went.

 

[JCT]

People don't use "modern cleaners" ...for example smokeless solvents, because they aren't what's needed for BP residue. Smokeless powders are typically nitro cellulose, which to me makes me think of lacquer and plastic. The burn residues require a solvent to dissolve them.
BP residue doesn't need anything more than soap and water. I've heard from people at the gun shop that it's not good to use hoppes on BP residue, and I don't see a reason to use it anyway. It's designed to dissolve nitro residue.
I like soap and water then a good coat of rem or mystery oil.

 

[wittzo]

I wasted money by buying a can of T17 Foaming Bore Cleaner. It has to stay in the barrel for an hour to work, plus it can damage wood finishes. It's sitting there laughing at me with my $8 in it's pocket. Jerk.

 

[mykeal]

You're not alone; we've all spent lots of money on 'new' bp cleaning products. And we each and separately seem to all come back to plain old water. I'm even wondering if soap actually does me any good. I've had perfectly good results with plain old lukewarm water. This summer I'm going to experiment with just that, nothing else.

 

[[email protected]]

Plain old water is all I used for 30 years. Worked just fine. In the last 10 years
I have been using the Blue windschield washer stuff. Can't really tell any
difference. Probably if I was smart I would go back to just the plain water.

 

[JNewell]

Plain old water is all I used for 30 years. Worked just fine. In the last 10 years
I have been using the Blue windschield washer stuff. Can't really tell any
difference. Probably if I was smart I would go back to just the plain water.

I am here to say, from my reenacting days, that water works very well indeed. If possible, we'd heat it so the metal dried faster, but that's optional.

 

[Jenrick]

Main reason for soap is to break up the oil/grease that gets on the gun from lube, finger prints etc. Hot water will do the job, soap just helps it along.

-Jenrick

 

[Ratdog68]

Main reason for soap is to break up the oil/grease that gets on the gun from lube, finger prints etc. Hot water will do the job, soap just helps it along.

-Jenrick

Soap will also help to "float" the loosened solids and suspend them in the liquid

 

[sixshooter]

growing up we always used hot water (as hot as it'd come out of the tap) and Fels-Naptha shavings in a bucket. Worked awesome on everything from my T/C Tree Hawk Carbine to my dad's replica Charleville musket, with a Hawken and my '51 Navy in between.

EDIT: and then a shot of WD-40 down the barrel to dispel the water afterwards.

 

[rusty from italy]

It took me a couple of misfires to force me to use boiling water on my long guns. I was intimidated by taking the stock off my '42 Springfield, but I nutted up and did it and it was no big deal. I was amazed at the gunk that came out of my "clean" rifle that boiling water knocks loose.

Doesn't take your barrel out of stock, in this musket you can compromise the accuracy, take an old nipple and drilled it to enlarge the hole, for cleaning action set this nipple on the barrel and a small rubber hose from nipple to a bucket of hot water, clean the barrel with a jag with tight patch over a non iron rod, i have made some bronze cleaning rod, the movement of the jag act like a pump form the water in the bucket.
For preserve the barrel where is in contact with the stock, grease the low side of the barrel with good grease for marine outboard engine, after that you set up the barrel in the stock and doesn't take it out no more.
When i begin to shoot rifled musket, i act like you for cleaning, but i had seen that accuracy and point of impact change from session to session, the old shooter in Italian MLAIC championship gave me this tip
ciao
Rusty

 

[BHP FAN]

works for me.

 

[arcticap]

Someone told me how they bought a used inline with a somewhat rusty and crusty barrel. He used CVA Barrel Blaster in it and a bore brush and the bore ended up looking almost like new with its accuracy restored.
Sometimes nothing will work as effectively as a powerful black powder solvent.

 

[Afy]

KG-1 is great on BP as well.

 

[Forklift]

Time to throw gas on this fire and ask... if you get spots of rust, what do you use to get it off? Is there a old-timey alternative or is this a job strictly modern cleaners like C.L.R.?