Modern Hunting Rifles- How much easier could it be?

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Kingcreek

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I don't usually let a social media post bother me, but I foolishly watched too much of a YT video on "What not to hunt with" and I can't seem to get it out of my head. The guy was going on about his terrible hunting rifles, poor choices due to weight, accuracy, etc. etc. I wish I had never seen it.
Seems to me that it has never been easier to get a really good quality hunting rifle, and some are great value.
In fact, I can't say I've ever had a bad hunting rifle. Even some with limited accuracy have been adequate. One particular Winchester model 70 XTR Featherweight had terrible accuracy out of the box and I intended to trade it off. Thankfully it eventually got a simple fix (after trying a lot of other things it just needed proper tension on the action screws) and became one of my favorite rifles.
I have Ruger, Tikka, Remington, Winchester that with good scopes will do perfectly well for me. There are truckloads of other brands in all price ranges that are great.
Maybe I'm just trying to get that stupid video out of my head but I would say it is easier to get a good hunting rifle than a bad one, even if you chose a caliber and then picked a rifle at random.
 
It all depends on what you value and your standards.
60yrs ago any 2moa or less hunting rifle was adequate.
If accuracy is your main consideration, then I would agree with you that these days, it would be hard to close your eyes and pick a hunting rifle in any price range that wouldn't shoot 2moa or less.
With that said, my sub moa Axis 6.5cm has a lousy stock that probably wouldn't survive an accidental fall from a saddle scabbard.
 
Kingcreek said:
I was thinking around 1.5 MOA for my standard of acceptability in a centerfire bolt rifle. as a handloader, I always figure on a little experimentation to find the optimal recipe.
Click to expand...
I hand load also and would agree that ammunition is as much or more a consideration than the rifle these days. My Model 94 30-30 was never much better than 1.5 to 2 moa with any factory ammo until Lever Evolution came out.
 
Hugger-4641 said:
Axis 6.5cm has a lousy stock that probably wouldn't survive an accidental fall from a saddle scabbard
Click to expand...

Horseback mountain hunting is the stuff of magazines and daydreams for many generations. Reality is probably 95+% of hunters today are pickup/suv/atv to a stand or short hike from a trailhead or road. :(

I think the industry kind of settled on a standardized hunting rifle a couple decades ago and have been busy pumping out slight variations since. We are definitely spoiled in terms of mechanical accuracy with solidly mounted optics which are usually clear and hold zero -- all things which were at times illusive. No complaints on my part so far as function, but the truth is what works has turned out to be ugly plastic.
 
I agree things are better than ever from a performance perspective. Most rifles sold today are designed for utilitarian users and a lot of the craftsmanship and quality parts have been substituted for ease of manufacture at the most efficient cost. If you crave highly polished blue, fancy wood and hand fitting you're either going to be disappointed, or spend well into 4 figures.

But I can buy a more accurate rifle and one that is more durable and rugged and have to work fewer hours to pay for it than at any other time in my life.

Horseback mountain hunting is the stuff of magazines and daydreams for many generations.
Click to expand...

I spent many hours in the school library reading every word in Outdoor LIfe, Field and Stream, and Sports
Afield and dreaming at night of those hunts. But real life means most of us will rarely, if ever get to do most of those things.

I still have a preference for a CRF rifle. Back when hunting was truly an expedition where you were gone for weeks at a time in wilderness settings I think the added reliability in harsh conditions mattered. But today most hunters are what I call "backyard hunters".
 
I like my rifles to have 1 MOA or less with handloads but will settle for more with vintage rifles. However, I bought one of the first Weatherby Vanguards back in the day. They advertised that the rifle would shoot 3 MOA or better. Well, test targets came with the rifle and the 4th one finally showed 3" +/- groups for 3 shots. I tried and tried but could never get that Vanguard 7mm mag to shoot under 4 1/2" groups.

Disgusted, I gave it to my brother. He couldn't hit anything with it so he traded it and $ for a Sako .30-06. It was about the smartest thing he ever did.

But I agree with OP. Most modern rifles are made well and can be modified easily with the multitude of accessories available.
 
Least accurate hunting rifles I had were a Remington 7400 in 6mm rem and an early Ruger M77 in .270.
The M77 would shoot no better than 2.5” with factory loads but I came up with decent hand loads and it was certainly huntable.
The 7400 was about the same but the 6mm was probably the more limiting factor.
People expect newer rifles to shoot 1-1.5” out of the box now, and many of them do.
For $1000 including scope, most people could have a center fire bolt rifle suitable for whatever they’re hunting.
 
You might tactfully ask him what he cannot hunt with a light .308 bolt gun with a budget scope (Savage Axis II, Vortex Diamondback 4-12, or similar).

There are pros/cons to different modern guns. I hunt with a Savage MSR-10 in .308 and I was able to get some good advice regarding it on this forum. It is heavy compared to a light bolt action but it's a great box blind gun and i can still hike with it.

If someone is that new to hunting you might want to make sure they know to use a hunting bullet as well (not FMJ) and that bore sighting by the gunsmith who mounted the scope is not sighting in.
 
Kingcreek said:
The M77 would shoot no better than 2.5” with factory loads but I came up with decent hand loads and it was certainly huntable.
Click to expand...

Odd. My Ruger 77 in .25-06 is a tack-driver. Last year I worked up a load with 115 gr. Nosler Partitions and IMR 4831. Probably luck but I shot a 3/4" three-shot group at 230 yards from a bench.

I have another 77 in .280 and it shoots well also ... just not as good as the .25-06.
 
My center fire hunting rifles run from .223 to .300WM and cover everything from prairie dogs to elk with no gaps. I haven’t hunted bear or moose but I would be comfortable doing so with what I’ve got.
I’ve taken a couple truckloads of antelope and deer, coyotes,etc in 50 years.
If somebody was planning a hunt and didn’t already have a rifle, there are dozens of affordable options.
I guess my point is never has it been easier to pull a new rifle off the dealers rack and be well equiped.
 
[QUOTE="jmr40, post: 12587400, member: 48261"

I spent many hours in the school library reading every word in Outdoor LIfe, Field and Stream, and Sports
Afield and dreaming at night of those hunts. .[/QUOTE]


That's exactly how I spent my middle school library time, with the addition of Boy's Life.
 
As a guy who hunts with a world war II issue rifle often called a **** stick for accuracy I tend to poo poo all these people who tend to make these kind of videos. Get a rifle learn to shoot it it's not any harder than that.
 
What are we hunting and at what range? Kill zone on an elk is the size of a manhole cover, so I am less picky even though shots can be 300+ yards. A headshot on a swimming beaver at 50 yards in the dark? That load had better cloverleaf.
 
illinoisburt said:
Horseback mountain hunting is the stuff of magazines and daydreams for many generations. Reality is probably 95+% of hunters today are pickup/suv/atv to a stand or short hike from a trailhead or road. :(

I think the industry kind of settled on a standardized hunting rifle a couple decades ago and have been busy pumping out slight variations since. We are definitely spoiled in terms of mechanical accuracy with solidly mounted optics which are usually clear and hold zero -- all things which were at times illusive. No complaints on my part so far as function, but the truth is what works has turned out to be ugly plastic.
Click to expand...
A proud 5% er here.

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974EC19C-6D4E-49A9-AE80-6C00D2AC28EB.jpeg

106B4041-87B5-490B-A3D2-826C76844287.jpeg
 
LoonWulf said:
I think the horses and that Steyr scout you use might actually put you in a 5x5 class of hunters...... :D
Click to expand...
I wonder if the Austrian gun engineers at Steyr who came up with the Scout ever considered that it would wind up strapped to a saddle in the American West. (Not as far west as you….);)
 
I think for most missed shots in the field, the rifle itself almost always isn’t the cause.

I like and enjoy submoa rifles but that accuracy isn’t necessary for most all hunting; however, they do allow for larger margins of error in all the other factors and conditions.
 
jmorris said:
I think for most missed shots in the field, the rifle itself almost always isn’t the cause.

I like and enjoy submoa rifles but that accuracy isn’t necessary for most all hunting; however, they do allow for larger margins of error in all the other factors and conditions.
Click to expand...
On many occasions I’ve had a buddy who’s rifle “ain’t grouping at all” that I’ve fixed in three easy steps.
1. Check action screws and scope mounting for anything loose.

2. Clean it and straighten the scope.

3. Shoot it off a stable rest.

90% of the time that fixes most accuracy “issues”. It’s the other 10% that can get a bit tricky.

In the field 99% of the time I see a hunter miss (myself included) it’s due to excitement and rushing the shot.
 
I've been around hunters for many years and I always divide them into two distinct groups. The 80 percent group that kill 20 percent of the game and the 20 percent group who kill 80 percent of the game. You can bet the 20 percent group has a user friendly rifle that they know how to use and it can be either newly manufactured or many years old. That rifle has evolved from what they started with into a rifle they can depend on to get the job done. The amount of money that is thrown into a rifle doesn't make it a good hunting rifle. It's all about a rifle where the length of pull fits the person using it, a stock that helps the person aim at the target, a rifle that is easy to carry and not too heavy and clumsy to use. The trigger needs to have a light crisp pull that allows the shooter to finish the trigger pull when the sight is aligned with the target. It needs to be a rifle where the user has enough ammunition to practice often. I think too much emphasis is placed on accuracy on the forums and as long as a hunting rifle shoots moa groups it can be acceptable. A really good hunting rifle is not necessarily a good target rifle as a target rifle fit more into the 80 percent group. The 20 percent group is more likely to be from those who appreciate hands on experience, are highly motivated and are self starters.
 
Last edited:
sage5907 said:
I've been around hunters for many years and I always divide them into two distinct groups. The 80 percent group that kill 20 percent of the game and the 20 percent group who kill 80 percent of the game. You can bet the 20 percent group has a user friendly rifle that they know how to use and it can be either newly manufactured or many years old. That rifle has evolved from what they started with into a rifle they can depend on to get the job done. The amount of money that is thrown into a rifle doesn't make it a good hunting rifle. It's all about a rifle where the length of pull fits the person using it, a stock that helps the person aim at the target, a rifle that is easy to carry and not too heavy and clumsy to use. The trigger needs to have a light crisp pull that allows the shooter to finish the trigger pull when the sight is aligned with the target. It needs to be a rifle where the user has enough ammunition to practice often. I think too much emphasis is placed on accuracy on the forums and as long as a hunting rifle shoots moa groups it can be acceptable. A really good hunting rifle is not necessarily a good target rifle as a target rifle fit more into the 80 percent group. The 20 percent group is more likely to be from those who appreciate hands on experience, are highly motivated and are self starters.
Click to expand...

And I’ll add that you can’t drag a non self starter into the 20/80 side of things. You can give a highly motivated hunter a hand and they’ll take it and run with it. But you can’t drag a non motivated one into success.

I’ve had a few hunters who want to piggyback off my success. You can only carry them so far, if they don’t get off your back and start carrying their own weight pretty quick it ain’t going to happen.
 
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