Modern Machine Shop Pistol Question

[Mainsail]

Question for you machinists: With all the computer controlled machine work that goes into making a modern firearm, shouldn’t it be as easy as a few keystrokes to produce a typically right-handed handgun in reverse, for left-handers?

Why hasn’t at least one of the big manufacturers swapped the software around and made a handgun that ejects out the port side? The frames would be the same, magazines should work fine…right? Is the problem in that a lefty’s other guns would all be right-ejecting, so why mix it up? Seems to me it shouldn’t be hard or expensive to knock out a few uppers for the left-handed folks; I mean it’s not like the old days of hand machining. Mostly thinking of the 1911s, but other guns like Sigs could do the same with the de-cock levers and such on the frames. Plastic guns- even easier.

Of course, that may already be happening, but as a righty maybe I don’t notice them.

 

[lincen]

Change overs in production are very costly. Also most slides interact with other functions of the gun and the complete internals would have to placed on the opposite side, slide stop, ejector, etc.

 

[mrming]

No money in it.


Slides tend to be forged or cast, not cnc from billet. If the design requires swapping sides for other bits (take down pins and slide release) then you've got too many fiddly bits differing for one assembly line.

Big money for the production line, big money for the dies for the slide.. just not worth it would be my guess.

 

[Drail]

No money in it is correct. The majority of consumers appear to be perfectly happy with mass produced products built to a price point. Just look at all the junk Americans buy. There is a market but it's not very big.

 

[wally]

No money in it is correct.

This and other than adding an ambi safety if you want cocked and locked, the 1911 and other handguns are just fine for lefties as the trigger finger can activate the mag release and slide release just fine.

 

[dogmush]

http://www.gunsamerica.com/988073051/Left-Handed-Randall-1911-45ac.htm

http://cabotgun.com/better-than-custom-1911-pistols/south-paw/

There's more to it then just swaping slides. Ejectors, firing pin blocks, sometimes sears all interact with the slide, and when you start movint them around other internal parts have to move. It ends up being a complete redesign, that gives you an expensive, niche gun. As you can see in the links some have done it, but it ain't cheap or easy.

 

[JDR]

Sorry Leftys, it's too costly to have a special production setup for LH guns, too costly to stock left hand built pistols in inventory with limited marketability and no resale value to sell or trade it.

 

[Sam1911]

Pretty much everything that NEEDS to be set up for left-handed use IS made ambidextrous on just about all modern guns. Not a whole lot of point in changing the ejection port. As long as the safety can be operated (if there is one) everything else can work just fine left handed.

 

[Monac]

Didn't a company named Randall make a left-handed 1911 called the Portsider back in the 1980's or 90's?

Yep - I did a Google image search: http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/beretta96/pop_wm_327028.jpg

The above picture is from a January 2008 thread here on The High Road: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-332023.html

So I guess it can be done because it has been done, but not enough people have wanted it enough for anyone to do it again.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

Walther P38 and P5 eject to the left.

 

[ritepath]

I can reverse prints...easy. Reversing machine and molds....hard & expensive.

 

[4thPointOfContact]

My first pistol was a Colt 1911. There would be another one today if there were a more 'lefty friendly' model of it and I cannot believe Colt or someone couldn't fit a proper ambi- safety rather than something that's tacked on as there is today.

 

[Sam1911]

You know, the ultimate lefty handgun is the 1873 Colt "SAA."

 

[Jim Watson]

Old wive's tale.
First, Sam Colt was long dead by the time the SAA came out.
Second, if I am loading a revolver with loose cartridges, (or capping a percussion gun which Sam WAS present for) I want to handle the big piece - the gun - with my off hand, and the little pieces - cartridges or percussion caps - with my strong hand.

The Walther P5 was mentioned. It is fully ambidextrous, with multipurpose levers on both sides and center hung heel magazine catch. Ejects left, too.

Or a 1907 Colt .45. The cavalry specified vertical ejection so as to not spook the next guy's horse.

 

[Sam1911]

I didn't mean to imply that it was designed that way, just that it works very well for lefties. Probably better than nearly any other handgun.

 

[Mainsail]

I'm not completely knowledgeable of product realization (what they call 'making stuff' nowadays) but I have worked with some small shops that pretty much throw a chunk of steel into a machine from across the room and the computer machines it into a part. So to my mind it seems easy enough to press a few buttons and tell the machine to make it in reverse.

But then, I'm not a lefty so I have no monkeys in the game.

 

[Jim K]

IIRC, the Randall was a full mirror image; everything was changed.

Mainsail wrote: "The frames would be the same."

Nope. Check it out.

Jim

 

[LiveLife]

Righties, rejoice with Glock perfection!

Lefties, rejoice with M&P ambi controls!

 

[alexander45]

I think the real question is why are you sticking a pistol so close to your face that you need the ejection port swapped around

 

[GoWolfpack]

Why hasn’t at least one of the big manufacturers swapped the software around and made a handgun that ejects out the port side?

First, does it really matter what side a handgun ejects?

Second, the easiest answer is available from Old-Reliable Wikipedia:

Studies suggest that approximately 10% of the world population is left-handed

Not enough lefties around for a switch to be economical.

 

[g.willikers]

It's gotta' be easier to retrain the shooter than redesign the guns.

 

[Sam1911]

It's gotta' be easier to retrain the shooter than redesign the guns.

Especially as "retraining" isn't even quite the right way to look at it. Every left-handed shooter grows up in and gains all their experience with guns designed with primarily right-handed shooters in mind. It isn't like they've been working with lefty guns all their lives and have to be trained to work a different way.

I know lefty shooters who have absolutely no interest in buying left-hand oriented rifles -- which are very common these days -- because that would mean unlearning all their ingrained practices with right-handed guns.

 

[Onmilo]

I can reverse prints...easy. Reversing machine and molds....hard & expensive.

This.
Not to mention cost of reversing fixtures.

The tool and die work would cost a small fortune for little gain.

 

[Jim Watson]

There are at least two sets of tooling out there.
There was a lefthanded Randall and a lefthanded MS Safari/Oly.
I THINK MS got the Randall tooling, so that is one set. Explanation of their departure from the 1911 business is at:
http://universityofguns.com/tag/safari-arms-1911/
It does not seem feasible to get them interested in a lefthanded project.

Caspian has a set. Some years ago they made up 20 sets of lefthanded parts, plus a completed gun to display at SHOT. Those sold fast at high prices. When Joe Chambers wanted to make up a fancy mirror image pair, he worked from a partial set of Caspians and had to make and modify a lot of parts.
I don't know how much money you would have to wave at Caspian, but they could do it if they wanted to.

 

[hAkron]

As a lefty, and answering only for myself and my personal experience - the only part of a hand gun that gives me trouble os a single sided safety.

I have guns with an ambi slide release that I never use. I either slingshot the slide, or use my index finger.

I also use my index finger to operate the magizine release. I've tried ambi guns, and guns that allow the button to be moved to the other side, but I don't like it. I feel like I have to shift my grip too much to press it with my thumb.

As far as ejection, I hold the gun straight out with both arms extended, so it wouldn't matter which way the brass ejects, though I don't notice an issue when I fire my AR-15 or a semi auto shotgun.

Clay sport shotguns are the only thing that springs to mind that really need to be set up as right or left handed, but those already exist.

I don't shoot competitively in any sport, so perhaps things might be a lot different if I was being timed.