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Modified case issue

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usmc0811

usmc0811

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Nov 7, 2010
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Pennsylvania
I got a modified case made for my mosin nagant 7.62x54R. Hornady made it for me from a case I shipped to them and then they shipped back when done. Today I tried to use it with some bullets I just got. The issue is these bullets don't slide into the modified case. Did I do something wrong with ordering the wrong bullets? Did Hornady do something wrong with the modified case and didn't open it up enough to accept these bullets? These bullets were found in my reloading manual for use in my 7.62x54R and that's why I bought them.The inside measurement of the modified case mouth is anywhere from .311"-.313"
 

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usmc0811 said:
I got a modified case made for my mosin nagant 7.62x54R. Hornady made it for me from a case I shipped to them and then they shipped back when done. Today I tried to use it with some bullets I just got. The issue is these bullets don't slide into the modified case. Did I do something wrong with ordering the wrong bullets? Did Hornady do something wrong with the modified case and didn't open it up enough to accept these bullets? These bullets were found in my reloading manual for use in my 7.62x54R and that's why I bought them.The inside measurement of the modified case mouth is anywhere from .311"-.313"
Click to expand...
Did you resize the case prior to sending it to Hornday ? If so that is likely your problem.
To expand on this; I personally like the case to be a true representation (with out bolt lift pressure) of the chamber so I do not re size a fire formed case or the neck prior to modifying so any appropriate diameter should slide in.
 
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You bought the correct .312" bullets (as long as your Mosin isn't a Finnish M39 witha .308" bore ). Hornady didn't open up the neck enough. You have a couple of options. Contact Hornady and let them know. Send it back to them and have them make it right.

Your other option is to open up the neck yourself, but that would entail you to have a neck expanding die like the ones from Sinclair, 21st Century etc. make. You would then have to buy a custom mandrel ($$) in .313"-.314" that you would never use again, since it is too oversized to be of practical use.

I had Hornady make me a custom modified case for my 338/06 from a fired case. It worked perfectly.

I would contact Hornady and speak to them and then send it back and have it done right. That would be the most economical way for you.

Don't be surprised after you get it back to discover when you use it, the throat in your rifle is so long, the bullets would be seated out to the lands will be so long it won't fit the magazine. I found this out with my 338 / 06. The 338 / 06 modified case for me was a waste of $$. I do use other modified cases in my 30 / 06, 270 Win. 223 Rem., 260 Rem. and 308 Win.
 
FLIGHT762 said:
You bought the correct .312" bullets (as long as your Mosin isn't a Finnish M39 witha .308" bore ). Hornady didn't open up the neck enough. You have a couple of options. Contact Hornady and let them know. Send it back to them and have them make it right.

Your other option is to open up the neck yourself, but that would entail you to have a neck expanding die like the ones from Sinclair, 21st Century etc. make. You would then have to buy a custom mandrel ($$) in .313"-.314" that you would never use again, since it is too oversized to be of practical use.

I had Hornady make me a custom modified case for my 338/06 from a fired case. It worked perfectly.

I would contact Hornady and speak to them and then send it back and have it done right. That would be the most economical way for you.

Don't be surprised after you get it back to discover when you use it, the throat in your rifle is so long, the bullets would be seated out to the lands will be so long it won't fit the magazine. I found this out with my 338 / 06. The 338 / 06 modified case for me was a waste of $$. I do use other modified cases in my 30 / 06, 270 Win. 223 Rem., 260 Rem. and 308 Win.
Click to expand...
No it's not a finish. I did slug my bore and if I did it right it read .314" which is big. That's why I went with a .313" bullet. Close enough lol. My case was sent to Hornady in the once fired configuration no sizing done.
 
South Prairie Jim said:
Did you resize the case prior to sending it to Hornday ? If so that is likely your problem.
To expand on this; I personally like the case to be a true representation (with out bolt lift pressure) of the chamber so I do not re size a fire formed case or the neck prior to modifying so any appropriate diameter should slide in.
Click to expand...
It wasn't sized. I sent them a once fired case.
 
usmc0811 said:
No it's not a finish. I did slug my bore and if I did it right it read .314" which is big. That's why I went with a .313" bullet. Close enough lol. My case was sent to Hornady in the once fired configuration no sizing done.
Click to expand...
Post #4, @FLIGHT762 is correct. Read it again.

You will need to open the neck. Buy the tool to do it yourself, or pay someone else to do it.
 
usmc0811 said:
I got a modified case made for my mosin nagant 7.62x54R. Hornady made it for me from a case I shipped to them and then they shipped back when done. Today I tried to use it with some bullets I just got. The issue is these bullets don't slide into the modified case. Did I do something wrong with ordering the wrong bullets? Did Hornady do something wrong with the modified case and didn't open it up enough to accept these bullets? These bullets were found in my reloading manual for use in my 7.62x54R and that's why I bought them.The inside measurement of the modified case mouth is anywhere from .311"-.313"
Click to expand...
You can always split the case neck with a cutting wheel on a Dremel. This is how I make my cases. It holds slight pressure but still allows the bullet to move inside the neck.
 
Before you go to more trouble . . .

As to MAX OAL . . .
- Close the bolt and run a flat-tip cleaning rod* down to meet the bolt face. Mark it right at the muzzle (razor blade or very sharp pencil)
- Remove bolt. Drop a bullet into the throat/held firmly there with a pencil** from the rear.
- Cleaning rod down the muzzle again to stop at bullet. What is distance from muzzle to 1st mark? (MAX OAL/against lands for that bullet)

(Accurate to within the barest fraction of a very sharp pencil mark)



* (1/4" wooden dowel from Home Depot would be perfect)
** (or piece of dowel again)

,
 
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Bolt lift method is the most consistent method for determining “kiss length” for respective bullets. Smoking bullets, slitting case necks, the Hornady spindles & modified cases, dipping rods… these all introduce inconsistencies and inaccuracies. Bolt lift method does not - you’re setting your die with a direct reference, not a measurement, but a physical reference - and feeling EXACTLY how that reference makes actual contact in the chamber.

————————- However —————————-

If you do insist on using the Hornady spindle and modified cases, be sure you measure the headspace difference between your modified case and ACTUAL headspace of your chamber. Your modified case should have been made with a 3x fired case, and should be confirmed with a test to determine a “no go” length on headspace.

What you are doing with the Modified Case is dead lengthing the case against the chamber shoulder, then using the Spindle to deadlength the bullet against the leade. This doesn’t offer any reference at all to the case head, or where would be the boltface. So you can have a few to several thousandths of an inch in error between the COAL measured with this device and the actual headspace and corresponding COAL of a round which ACTUALLY contacts the bolt face, chamber shoulder, and leade concurrently.
 
Last time I had one done was a case fired three times that still (cycled freely) and not resized, from the same three cases I sent to Harrrels precision for a semi custom Fl die.
It seems to do the job but I only need it occasionally
 
South Prairie Jim said:
Last time I had one done was a case fired three times that still (cycled freely) and not resized, from the same three cases I sent to Harrrels precision for a semi custom Fl die.
It seems to do the job but I only need it occasionally
Click to expand...

bingo.

That really illustrates my biggest disappointment in the Hornady/Stoney Point spindle method - the chicken and the egg paradigm it represents.

We either know it’s not giving us meaningful info (modified case is the wrong shape/length), or we need to know the headspace length to set the sizing die and need to know the BTO length to set the seating die, BUT we need to load the same case 3 times to be able to make the tool to measure these… So what do we do? Load a single case 3 times to have it properly expanded to send off to be threaded, wait a few weeks for return, and then finally get to shoot our rifle? We had to set the dies to fire it to make the tool to figure out how to set the dies… um… nah…

Bolt lift method. All up front, no waiting, no threading, no cost, more exact, more repeatable.
 
Varminterror said:
bingo.

That really illustrates my biggest disappointment in the Hornady/Stoney Point spindle method - the chicken and the egg paradigm it represents.

We either know it’s not giving us meaningful info (modified case is the wrong shape/length), or we need to know the headspace length to set the sizing die and need to know the BTO length to set the seating die, BUT we need to load the same case 3 times to be able to make the tool to measure these… So what do we do? Load a single case 3 times to have it properly expanded to send off to be threaded, wait a few weeks for return, and then finally get to shoot our rifle? We had to set the dies to fire it to make the tool to figure out how to set the dies… um… nah…

Bolt lift method. All up front, no waiting, no threading, no cost, more exact, more repeatable
Click to expand...

Yes the Wheeler method is very repeatable for those comfortable with stripping the bolt and remove the ejector spring. This greatly helps when sharing information during load development with customers. I’m not sharing so I really don’t mind being off .001 or exactly the same as Alex , as it’s only a starting point for base to ogive or monitoring throat erosion. I didn’t wait quite as long for my die and gene had my MC back to me in about a week
 
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