More on Cougars

[Art Eatman]

Finally, a rather thorough study of numbers and behavior:

http://marfapublicradio.org/blog/tr...supported-study-implies-population-is-stable/

"She says without the support of ranchers and other landowners, she could not paint a picture of how lions sometimes help ranchers.

A case-in-point. James King has trouble eliminating feral hogs. That’s an invasive species brought to the Americas by Christopher Columbus.

“I shoot a lot of feral hogs. And they’re hard to exterminate. And those lions are out there at night doing that job,” he said with a wide smile.

King says the antipathy toward the mountain lion goes back to the days when sheep and goats were raised in this part of the southwest. Today King says ranchers principally raise cattle. He says he’s encouraged by one development profiled in the study.

“Here in the Davis Mountains we’re not seeing any kills of domestic cattle.”

“We’ve documented over 200 different kills,” said project leader Harveson. “And not a one domestic animal has fallen to mountain lions. And that’s a fact.”

FWIW, in my rather extensive travels around western Texas, I've not seen sheep much west of Ozona--which is some 150 miles east of the Davis Mountains. Maybe a few around Marathon, but few. Goats? Mostly down along the Rio Grande where they are indeed subject to cougars.

 

[Patocazador]

" James King has trouble eliminating feral hogs. That’s an invasive species brought to the Americas by Christopher Columbus."

Trouble is that Columbus never set foot or docked in continental US waters. He landed at islands and Central America. If he had hogs, none made it here.

Most credit deSoto with introducing hogs during his ill-fated expedition starting in 1539.

 

[Art Eatman]

Yeah, well. Lotsa stuff that "everybody knows". Basically, irrelevant to the thrust of the article.

I used to lease a small state-land tract in the Davis. NW of the Observatory, on Elbow Canyon Creek. One season, I saw more lion tracks than deer tracks.

 

[wankerjake]

Wrong linky?

 

[Art Eatman]

Thx. Corrected, now.

 

[wankerjake]

In California it’s protected. In Arizona and New Mexico, you can hunt this predator but with strict limitations. In Texas, mountain lions can be hunted at will

Yep pretty strict here in AZ, $15 over the counter tag but you only have access to 95% or so of the state, and the season lasts only 365 days of the year

 

[Bobson]

Yep pretty strict here in AZ, $15 over the counter tag but you only have access to 95% or so of the state, and the season lasts only 365 days of the year

Barbaric limitations. I'm surprised there hasn't been a revolt.

I'm curious about the title. More on Cougars? Was there a recent, previous thread that explained some back-story or specific concern? Seems like the OP sort of takes off where some sort of preface might have been helpful.

 

[X-Rap]

I think cougars are like all predators in that they take advantage of their best opportunity to eat. If they are after the populous hogs in Texas that's great, in Colorado they still do their share of damage on sheep but I believe the deer are suffering the most.
As far as the Columbus comment, it's all political IMO. Environmentalists love blame Europeans for all the ills brought upon this continent. Do they really believe hogs would never have been imported to these shores and turned feral?

 

[Art Eatman]

Bobson, we've had a fair number of threads about cougars. This particular one is one of the few with some amount of scientific research as to the situation in a specific area.

If interested, type "McDonald Observatory" or "Ft. Davis, TX" at Google Maps and do the zoom game to see the area.

 

[OYE]

Lion study

As in all wildlife studies one must keep in mind, that the facts gathered, will support the hoped for conclusion (or political views) of the individual or organization that funded the study. And if it does not, the research money will
dry up quickly for the researchers involved in the study. OYE

 

[buck460XVR]

One season, I saw more lion tracks than deer tracks.

I wonder what they were eating then Art. The presence of high numbers of predators has always been a sign of a high presence of prey animals/food. Those big cats don't stick around in high numbers if there's no food. If and when they clean out their primary prey, they usually are gone unless there's another easy source of food.


Don't sound like Columbus had anything to do with wild hogs in the U.S.

How Did Wild Pigs Get Here?

Pigs were first introduced in the 1500’s to what is now the southeastern U.S. by Spanish Explorer, Hernando DeSoto. In the centuries following European exploration and colonization of the eastern U.S., free-range livestock management practices and escapes from enclosures resulted in the establishment of wild pig populations and promoted their spread.

Eurasian Wild Boars were introduced in the early 1900s for sporting purposes.

 

[Art Eatman]

Dangfino, buck. Maybe just travelling through the area. Some years back, for sure one cougar was making a living off cats and dogs around beautiful downtown Ft. Davis.

 

[skoro]

beautiful downtown Ft. Davis

Hope he didn't take down that huge tomcat from the Limpia Hotel.

 

[gamestalker]

Ya, Az. has been OTC 365 day hunt in nearly all public lands in the state for as long as I can remember, 1970's.

As for the damage they do here, the biggest issue is the impact they have on antelope and elk populations. But far more damaging in this respect are coyotes, they have been depleting hard to manage antelope herds, this has been on going for decades and decades. Federal wildlife management folks have off and on paid bounty on coyotes in antelope populated areas, where as lions have never really been on the radar in this manner, not that I recall anyway.

GS

 

[WestKentucky]

Cougars lie in wait at the local pub for unsuspecting young men..er...umm...

Supposedly some cougars have been seen in western kentucky recently. Not that I'm nervous about them but that thought as well as my plans to put more miles into hunts over the next few years did play into my woods secondary being a 44 rather than 357. When teeth and claws are coming I want to sling a bigger anchor.

 

[Charley C]

WestKentucky said;

Quote; Supposedly some cougars have been seen in western kentucky recently. Not that I'm nervous about them but that thought as well as my plans to put more miles into hunts over the next few years did play into my woods secondary being a 44 rather than 357.

I live about 20 miles east of the Illinois line in western Indiana, about 20 miles NE of Terre Haute; in the last 6 to 9 months, there have been at least three confirmed images of mountain lions taken by trail cameras......two of which were within 5 or 6 miles of where we live. I have read several articles recently by wildlife biologists that say this lion (or lions ) here are from a very small population in far northwestern Illinois.

Having a hand gun when anyplace out "in the woods / country is a very good idea, IMO, but you don't even need a .357 to stop a lion; far more important than having a really large caliber hand gun, is getting an opportunity to get a decent, well aimed shot; without having one or more well trained dogs with you, your chances of even seeing a mountain lion is very slight, even in areas where lions are known to be abundant. IMO, there isn't another large predator on the entire North American continent that is the equal of a full grown mountain lion, (unless you count the very few jaguars in Central America and Mexico ), in cunning, ability to stay out of sight, and their amazing strength, power and "weapons"; fortunately, a very large percentage of lions don't regard humans as their natural prey; (but a few of them do; ) having one or more alert dogs will be far more useful in being able to get a shot at a lion than having a really large caliber hand gun.

I've spent quite a lot of time doing wildlife photography all over California, and there are a LOT of lions in Ca. I have also spoken with a lot of forest rangers in Ca. about lions; overall, they have all reported essentially the same thing; "been a ranger now for 25 years, heard lions many times, but so far, in 25 years of working in "lion country", I've only actually "seen" ( most report 1, 2, maybe 3 actual sightings! ) It's hard, if not impossible to exaggerate just how cunning, stealthy, and powerful a mountain lion is. A gun isn't likely to do you much good against an animal that sees you long before you have any chance of seeing him (or her), and one that can jump almost 30 feet from a motionless position. (Unless you have a dog (or dogs) to alert you to his presence.*Quite frequently, when people are out hunting lions with dogs, the lions are very prone to climbing a tree rather than fighting with a pack of dogs; I doubt seriously in a lion would "tree" from only 2 or 3 dogs though.

Any time I'm out tramping around in the wild with my camera, I always have my little rat terrier and my big black lab with me; neither one would be any use as protection, but they can both see, hear, and smell a lot of things that I can't; ever since the lion images appeared on game cameras, I'm now going to be carrying a Glock 34 or a G 35 along with my camera.

 

[gamestalker]

I've had a couple close encounters with lions over the years, one was too close for comfort. He and I were competing for the same roosted gobbling turkey I was locating for the morning hunt. I saw him coming down the hill and not the least bothered by my presence, I turned and ran for my life. When I came back in the morning, just in case he didn't get him for dinner, all I found was lots and lots of feathers.

The worst part was it was late, late afternoon, and I was in the tree canopy above 8,000' elevation, so it was very dark, giving him the advantage, I imagine I lit up like a light bulb to his eye's. He was doing that big cat growling sound, made shivers run down my spine, and also made the turkey gobble even more.

I never gave much thought to them prior to that first incident, not so much any more though, and good thing. I ran into a large cat with cubs a couple years ago, only about 500 yds. from camp. I was actually sitting at camp glassing a herd of deer, and spotted her standing on the edge of a large bluff, cubs right at her side. She was stalking a herd of deer only 1 or 2 hundred yards from me. I grabbed my shotgun, loaded with 00 buck, and my .357 mag. and kept a close eye on her for a good 1/2 hr.. She kept pace with the deer, then just dropped out of sight. Next morning I found a yeariing deer completely eaten, and her tracks all over the place, sent shivers up my spine for second time.

GS